View Poll Results: Who will win the title?

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  • Žalgiris

    8 72.73%
  • Rytas

    3 27.27%
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Thread: LKL finals 2012

  1. #1

    Default LKL finals 2012

    Žalgiris against Rytas already tommorow. Teams will go for 3 wins because of Olympic qualification. Most people (coaches, experts) think Žalgiris is the favourite to win it - 3:2 usual prediciton.

    I have to agree - Rytas is barely walking. They have had extreame schedule while Žalgiris was even lacking games. Žalgiris will come up motivated and fresh and I doubt Rytas can deal with that as most of their leaders seem tired. On other hand, Rytas has the rhytm and motivation for Euroleague's ticket. Teams are pretty equal. IMO, the key of this finals should be Kalnietis' performance. If he can run his best and he seems at the good shape lately, Žalgiris will go fast and strong in offence. I'm really happy it's the last games I have to follow Rytas' backourt, it's pain in the ass...

    Very optimistic about this final because it means very soon NT coming - real basketball with favourite players

    The flick from the future...

  2. #2
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    I think (and I hope) Rytas can win this series, mainly because Rytas has shown great game against Khimki and even CSKA, one of the best teams in Europe. But all the games against Zalgiris have been unlucky for Rytas. But now that all the championships are finished, Rytas can finally concentrate on winning the LKL. And once they're concentrated on winning a game, Rytas is tough to beat (as you saw vs. CSKA and Khimki - solid defense, solid offense).

    The match will probably extend to five games, with either Rytas or Zalgiris winning the last match (and I hope Rytas wins). But I can almost guarantee that there won't be a sweep this time. Matchups:

    C: Valanciunas, Samardziski vs. Javtokas, Rakovic (defensively J & R tip the balance to Zalgiris)
    PF: Roberts, Katelynas vs. Jankunas, Klimavicius (offensively, R & K are a little bit better, while defensively, both pairs are about the same)
    SF: Jomantas, Dilys vs. Salenga, Kuzminskas (offensively especially)
    SG: Seibutis, Babrauskas, Redikas vs. Popovic, Delininkaitis, Lipkevicius (Popovic (a little) > Seibutis, Babrauskas = Delininkaitis, Redikas = Lipkevicius)
    PG: Rasic, Rice vs. Kalnietis, Janavicius (Rice (can) = Kalnietis, Rasic > Janavicius). But if Kalnietis takes everything on his shoulders, then the Zalgiris pair would tip the balance in their favor.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lietuvis's Avatar
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    I thought was only best of 3 due to season shortening for Olympic qualifications?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lietuvis View Post
    I thought was only best of 3 due to season shortening for Olympic qualifications?
    The series shortened, but only till best-of-5 instead of best-of-7. But it's already good, the sooner it'll finish - the better for NT.

    Regarding final outcome, hard to guess. If Weems would be healthy, I'd go with Zalgiris, even 3-0, they would be more than capable to win in Vilnius, but now I don't know. Zalgiris is just too unstable to make any guesses in their games


  5. #5
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    the only way rytas can win this series is 3-1.If it goes to gm5 in zalgiris arena,I cant see rytas winning last season game in kaunas just cant.So Rytas have steal one game in first two meeting in kaunas,if not they will loose eurolegue place for next season ;]

    My prediction is 3-2 zalgiris or 3-1 rytas .

  6. #6
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    My prediction changes - 3:0 for Zalgiris. Rytas has no chance, and that's really sad . No one can break the curse.

  7. #7

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    We saw a game between two completely different teams- one (Žalgiris) played basketball and other (Rytas) played anti- basketball.

    The difference is very obvious. All guards of Žalgiris can share the ball and none of Rytas guards can do that.

    Current Rytas is probably the ugliest team that ever entered LKL finals. And some Slovenian fans were saying we have to be happy about Džikič He made this problem even more obvious.

    I hope we won't see Pačėsas in NT anywhere soon. The guy thinks Babrauskas is NT material. Jess...

    Hopefully it's 0:3 for Žalgiris because this f... up Rytas is unwatchable.

    Happy to see Kalnietis being aggressive, playing perfect pick and roll, attacking the basket.

    The flick from the future...

  8. #8
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    Jonas V. is plain crap. Why do people say he's NBA-material? He can't even play against Zalgiris without traveling 4 times and committing offensive fouls. He can't defend Rakovic, he couldn't stop Javtokas. He's 0 on defense. 0!

    I'm not even sure we should call up Jonas. Obviously he can't play against a Euroleague-caliber team, why should he play for the NT? Klimavicius would be a better choice.

  9. #9
    Senior Member hustlerlt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macleopard13 View Post
    Jonas V. is plain crap. Why do people say he's NBA-material? He can't even play against Zalgiris without traveling 4 times and committing offensive fouls. He can't defend Rakovic, he couldn't stop Javtokas. He's 0 on defense. 0!

    I'm not even sure we should call up Jonas. Obviously he can't play against a Euroleague-caliber team, why should he play for the NT? Klimavicius would be a better choice.
    I'm sorry,but you sound like a complete retard.
    The first game looked more than pathetic for Rytas.They couldn't defend,couldn't attack,couldn't rebound.They just got lucky that Zalgiris missed a lot of wide open shots in the 4th quarter,because the result doesn't reflect the game.I also love Dzikic's comments after the game.He basically said that this wasn't the most important match in the series.Seriously,when will this guy consider a game against Zalgiris as important?When Rytas lost in the BBL,Dzikic's response was "it's just BBL".With each day I start to hate him more and more.
    Also,what in the hell was Babrauskas doing on the court for so god damn much?When I looked at his stats I was shocked that he finished the game with 8 in efficiency,because he was easily the worst player on the court.Also,Mr. Dzikic decides to start "white Kobe" instead of Seibutis,which makes no sense at all!I mean how many times Stepas played better than Seibutis?
    Overall I'm pissed.Before todays game I thought Rytas had pretty good chances to win in the LKL,but from what I've seen in game 1,they look more like they should be in the NKL.
    Lietuvos rytas - signing your Yugoslavian scrubs since forever.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by hustlerlt View Post
    I'm sorry,but you sound like a complete retard.
    Sorry, macleopard13, but I agree on that. I don't want to sound like facist, but I would like to see this place without 13 years olds really

    The flick from the future...

  11. #11
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustlerlt View Post
    I'm sorry,but you sound like a complete retard.
    Seriously, he racked up more turnovers than rebounds. What kind of a guy playing like that would hope to play in the NBA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Sorry, macleopard13, but I agree on that. I don't want to sound like facist, but I would like to see this place without 13 years olds really
    I'm just venting, you guys . I was sure that Rytas would finally win one game against Zalgiris, but it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. I want Valanciunas to give his whole-hearted effort and not give up to more physical centers. I want him to bring his A-game with him and play like third game against Khimki (20 pts, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks). That's more like the Jonas I used to know!
    Last edited by macleopard13; 05-06-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by macleopard13 View Post
    Seriously, he racked up more turnovers than rebounds. What kind of a guy playing like that would hope to play in the NBA?



    I'm just venting, you guys . I was sure that Rytas would finally win one game against Zalgiris, but it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. I want Valanciunas to give his whole-hearted effort and not give up to more physical centers. I want him to bring his A-game with him and play like third game against Khimki (20 pts, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks). That's more like the Jonas I used to know!
    How do you think he will get an A-game when he doesnt get the ball? Whenever he gets it is when opponent defends him with another guy ready to double in every time.

    Rakovic and Javtokas were scoring so easily because the guards did not pass them the ball and then leave them out but actually made a plays.

    Jonas is constantly rolling to the basket, constakntly yet he never gets a play for pick-and-roll because A) PG is too brain-dead and tries to do everything alone by himself (Rice), B) The PG is too unskilled with passing and as a result always hesitates too much and misses the chance to pass the ball on the rolling center (Rasic).

    Add an idiot babrauskas to a picture who would rather climb into a tree rather than pass the ball up and ball-hoging Seibutis and you will get a picture. And the super-zone master Djikic on the bench (who screws up on the opponents zone, but mysteriously manages to screw up putting out a zone himself) who constructs most of his game by passing around the perrimeter and hoping that something good eventually happens.

    Jonas is very young. To get him going he needs to score and needs to get plays called for him. When he gets pass the ball only when he is on one on two situation he gets lost which ends up in traveling.

    Pass him on the fly when he rolls to the basket and he will score with much more easy than Rakovic and Javtokas together. The problem is that Rytas all this season plays without a proper PG. Last year it wasnt much better too but El_Amin though still favored himself first and team second wasnt as brain-dead as Rice.

    The only good PG that Jonas played together with in Rytas was Popovic and that happened only for his debut game (as popovic left the team after that game) and Saras (who was getting in shape most of the time).

    I swear Redikas had more pick\n'rolls with Jonas than Rice and Rasic... and Redikas cannot dribble the ball, is a bad (though willing) passer and just isnt a PG. Not to mention his PT is very sparse.

    And jonas D is pretty good. Rakovic and javtokas scores on him? yeah, but what he is supposed to do? He, as you may have notice if you were attentive enough, usually gets left one on two situations on roll (Rice is a piece of shit and not a defender, while Seibutis is only mediocre who always gets stuck in the screens, Babrauskas has no defense to begin with, Rasic gets blown whenever PG drives to the left), so he has no options either he goes on to cover Kalnietis, Salenga, Lipkevicius, Delinkaitis, Popovic at the risk of Rakovic and Javtokas getting the ball and score or he stays with Rakovic and Javtokas and the Kalnietis, Salenga, Lipkevicius, Delinkaitis, Popovic score from under the basket...

    Choose your pioson really in such situation. Djikic is a truly master of being a retard. Particularly when he places a poorly mobile zone to defend agaisnt pick'n'rolls and with the corner shooters like Zalgiris have. Truly freaking brilliant.
    Last edited by Darknemo2000; 05-06-2012 at 11:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
    How do you think he will get an A-game when he doesnt get the ball? Whenever he gets it is when opponent defends him with another guy ready to double in every time.

    Rakovic and Javtokas were scoring so easily because the guards did not pass them the ball and then leave them out but actually made a plays.

    Jonas is constantly rolling to the basket, constakntly yet he never gets a play for pick-and-roll because A) PG is too brain-dead and tries to do everything alone by himself (Rice), B) The PG is too unskilled with passing and as a result always hesitates too much and misses the chance to pass the ball on the rolling center (Rasic).

    Add an idiot babrauskas to a picture who would rather climb into a tree rather than pass the ball up and ball-hoging Seibutis and you will get a picture. And the super-zone master Djikic on the bench (who screws up on the opponents zone, but mysteriously manages to screw up putting out a zone himself) who constructs most of his game by passing around the perrimeter and hoping that something good eventually happens.

    Jonas is very young. To get him going he needs to score and needs to get plays called for him. When he gets pass the ball only when he is on one on two situation he gets lost which ends up in traveling.

    Pass him on the fly when he rolls to the basket and he will score with much more easy than Rakovic and Javtokas together. The problem is that Rytas all this season plays without a proper PG. Last year it wasnt much better too but El_Amin though still favored himself first and team second wasnt as brain-dead as Rice.

    The only good PG that Jonas played together with in Rytas was Popovic and that happened only for his debut game (as popovic left the team after that game) and Saras (who was getting in shape most of the time).

    I swear Redikas had more pick\n'rolls with Jonas than Rice and Rasic... and Redikas cannot dribble the ball, is a bad (though willing) passer and just isnt a PG. Not to mention his PT is very sparse.

    And jonas D is pretty good. Rakovic and javtokas scores on him? yeah, but what he is supposed to do? He, as you may have notice if you were attentive enough, usually gets left one on two situations on roll (Rice is a piece of shit and not a defender, while Seibutis is only mediocre who always gets stuck in the screens, Babrauskas has no defense to begin with, Rasic gets blown whenever PG drives to the left), so he has no options either he goes on to cover Kalnietis, Salenga, Lipkevicius, Delinkaitis, Popovic at the risk of Rakovic and Javtokas getting the ball and score or he stays with Rakovic and Javtokas and the Kalnietis, Salenga, Lipkevicius, Delinkaitis, Popovic score from under the basket...

    Choose your pioson really in such situation. Djikic is a truly master of being a retard. Particularly when he places a poorly mobile zone to defend agaisnt pick'n'rolls and with the corner shooters like Zalgiris have. Truly freaking brilliant.
    Nice perspective on the team's situation !

    Now that I think about the game more (and collected myself from my earlier vents), I realize that Zalgiris beat Rytas with their multiple plays and fluid offense. Rytas' only play seems to be Jonas setting a pick for the point guard, then rolling to the basket (always empty handed), and then the guards are stuck up top. No penetration, no pass inside, nothing. Meanwhile, Zalgiris had a few elaborate plays, with double screens, pick'n'rolls and penetrations. And they have many weapons against Rytas. Kalnietis is too fast and too athletic for Rice and Rasic; Popovic is too good a three-point shooter to be left wide open, as well as Delnas and Salenga; and again, Zalgiris killed Rytas with those picks.

    P.S. Here's a story for your entertainment

    Typical gameplay (Rytas vs. Zalgiris)

    Rytas sets up its offense. Rice commands, "Yo, set a pick, dawg!"
    Jonas runs up to his defender and drops one on Kalnietis. Javtokas is ready "Oh no you don't, you cockroach!" and waves his hands in front of Rice, who's about to drive to the basket.
    "Oh shit!" yells Rice, surprised to see a giant in front of him. He backs up.
    Then Jonas rolls to the basket, with his hand up in the air, screaming, "I'm open!"
    But then Javtokas sees Jonas. "Damn, I better go before Rice actually decides to pass it to him," he thinks and runs after him.
    Kalnietis recovers from the pick and again faces Rice in a flash.
    "Fuck," thinks Rice as the shotclock winds down. Then he passes the ball to Babrauskas, who dribbles around a bit before giving it up to Seibutis. Seibutis thinks as he dribbles, "Should I take this or not?" He then decides to give the ball to Babrauskas, who finally throws it to Jonas in the paint (with five seconds on the shotclock) after Salenga nearly steals it. By the time Babrauskas makes the pass, Javtokas and Jankunas are double teaming Jonas. "Damn my teammates, they should've passed it when I asked for it!" Jonas tries to post up, but the referees, who have their eyes on Jonas all the time (much like many Lithuanian basketball fans), call a traveling violation.
    "Damn, you clumsy oaf," hollers Rice at Jonas. "Now I'll have bust my ass playing on defense."
    So Rytas sets up their defense. Jankunas sets a pick on Rice.
    "Help! Somebody help! I'm getting squashed by a godzilla," yells Rice.
    Kalnietis sprints to the basket. Jonas steps up to help. "Should I draw a charge or should I play defense on him. I better play defense since Kalnietis will just go around me," so Jonas plays defense. Kalnietis sneakily passes the ball to Javtokas. Jonas turns around to face a muscular monster throwing down a dunk on him. Rice runs up to him and pats his back.
    "Damn man, you worthless piece of shit! Why didn't you pick up your man 'Yo-wad-cuz'?"
    Last edited by macleopard13; 05-07-2012 at 12:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member madmax's Avatar
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    everything has been said here about finals already and there is not much to add really, but still one thing is really odd and jumps out in front you - why does Rytas play so much better in Europe as opposed to domestic championship? The difference in the level of play is so huge, that you would think that there are two different teams being fielded for both competitions. It almost reminds me of current Chelsea situation (not the best example I know, but you get the drift) - sucking in EPL and owning the cup competitions, both domestically and in CL. Like the team lacks motivation and dedication to prove itself locally too?
    Coming back to this years Rytas team, the main difference is of course psychological one - we just can't get our game going in LKL for some reason. Is it tiredness (both mental and physical) or a simple choking under pressure? Euroleague ticket is one the line, so motivation shouldn't be an issue here really. Let's see what Game 2 brings and and see if our level of play will finally rise...

  15. #15
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    zalgiris just was fresh and more motivated.Gm2 it gonna way diferent story,rytas will be prepared and gonna win first game against zalgiris this season.But the key game gonna be Gm3 in kaunas.If rytas will loose that game its all over,nobody will let them win final game of the season in kaunas...

    About players i like one factor that zalgiris lithuanian national team players are waking up right at the moment when its needed at the end of the season .In my mind there cant be even any discusion does javtokas needed or not,for me its obviuos this man can defend any center in world one on one and slow him down.You just look what hard time valanciunas have agains him in all 4 games this season,mostly of his points he scores against rakovic or free throws...
    10-15 minutes from Robertas could be very valuable for Lietuva and all those experts who says andriuskevicius or kavaliauskas instead of javtokas i would suggest go and watch football not talking such nonsense.This men dedicated all his summer from 2001 to our country basketball team and never we heard from him in all decade maybe i will help ,maybe i will not,he just calmly came and played as hard as he could.GIVE HIM A RESPECT HE DESERVED !

    rytas is in trouble... something is wrong with their body language...

  16. #16

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    Take a look at that tree's climber Babrauskas in the first game

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=ZOnDF5tcNEo#!

    The flick from the future...

  17. #17
    Senior Member macleopard13's Avatar
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    He just couldn't control his anger at his inability to score points. He's pretty inconsistent - I don't know why Rytas is still keeping him.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Basket_'s Avatar
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    TOP 10 from a first game


  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by macleopard13 View Post
    He just couldn't control his anger at his inability to score points. He's pretty inconsistent - I don't know why Rytas is still keeping him.
    Because of his long hair obviously.

  20. #20

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    Finally someone declared very important fact. Š. Sakalauskas said that Džikič simply can't get anything from his players. He stated that even one year younger JV looked better with Kurtinaitis than he looks now with Džikič (he is refering to LKL finals).

    He also critisized Žalgiris' coach, but as long as Žalgiris killing Rytas there's no point to discuss that.

    I agree on that position. Even though one of the key in these finals is Žalgiris' freshness and Rytas' distress (maybe even the most important fact), it doesn't deny the fact that Džikič's basketball is HORRIBLE. And it had to be said even if Seibutis, JV or other player would have better individual performances in up coming games. That's probably the first time when some prefesional stated that in the media this season.

    The flick from the future...

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