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Thread: full european league?

  1. #1
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    Default full european league?

    maccabi's owner david federman had an interview about maccabi.
    he has been asked about the adriatic league and say that one of the reason maccabi join to the aba
    is to make the euroleague play more games. he say it succeed and it the first step for turn the euroleague into full european league which is going to happen in 3 tears.

    somebody know what "full european league" mean? i would be happy to get an explanation...

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    Senior Member qiangdade's Avatar
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    link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by qiangdade View Post
    link?
    its in hebrew so i don't know much helpful it would be for you, but here:
    http://www.israelhayom.co.il/site/ne...ter=24.04.2012

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    Senior Member qiangdade's Avatar
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    google translate will be my friend
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    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    so, israeli team is forcing euroleague to crate full euro league this should be some nba copy-paste league, right?

    lol
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    Senior Member elaj's Avatar
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    Old man Federman lost all credibility when he dissed David Blatt in this interview. He should stick to money making and leave basketball to people who actually know something about basketball and Blatt clearly knows.

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    EL Week 3 MVP Billy Bounce's Avatar
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    Old man Federman lost all credibility when he dissed David Blatt in this interview. He should stick to money making and leave basketball to people who actually know something about basketball and Blatt clearly knows.
    Dissed David Blatt ? It's probably cultural differences between Israel & Europe: nobody here gives a flying f&ck about hierarchical formalities ( owner-employee", "soldier-officer", etc) , while straight talking on what on one's mind is appreciated.

    What is important that Federman don't interfere with Blatt sphere of responsibility ( decision not to play Ohayon in the end of 4th game, Papaloukas playing time, etc) even if he thinks Blatt is totally wrong.

    Not many coaches could ignore owner's ideas and to do what he thinks is right.

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    EL Week 3 MVP Billy Bounce's Avatar
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    Here is a part of the interview dedicated to "Full European league:

    "הליגה האדריאטית הצילה אותנו בגלל נושא הזרים. אם אנחנו לא מגיעים להצלבה, אנחנו נשארים בתחילת מארס עם שלושה זרים שאין לנו מה לעשות איתם. הליגה גם איפשרה לשחקן כמו לנגפורד להשתלב מהר מאוד. אין ספק שזה עומס גדול מדי ובאופן נורמלי לא צריך לשחק בשלוש ליגות, אבל היו לנו שתי מטרות: לגרום ליורוליג להעלות את מספר המשחקים, ובזה הצלחנו, כי מספר המשחקים יגדל בעונה הבאה. זה שלב ראשון בדרך לליגה אירופית מלאה בעוד כשלוש שנים. המטרה השנייה היתה לפתור את הקונפליקט מול הליגה הישראלית, שהיתה מונעת בעיקר מהשאלה איך דואגים שמכבי אולי לא תיקח את האליפות".
    Adriatic League saved us in a context of foreign players issue. If we couldn't get into EL play-offs , we would stay with 3 foreign players that aren't allowed to play from the beginning of March ( BB: There is a restriction of maximum 4 foreign players allowed per game in BSL )
    ..
    There were 2 goals of MTA joining Adriatic : to persuade EL to increase number of games per season and we did succeed with that. That's the first phase toward full "European League" in the next 3 years .

    The second goal was to resolve the conflict with BSL , whose main task was to ensure Maccabi won't get a championship. ( BB: a subtle hint on BSL's final four championship system & a restriction on maximum 4 foreign players allowed per game )

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    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    With all respect to Federman, he is not one who should speak about basketball. He, Jordi and co. are destroying evrything good about euro basketball. I used to toght FIBA is dirty money making machine and was happy when Uleb took their place, but now FIBA looks like saints compared with these guys
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    so full european league is a euroleague in NBA format(the same clubs every year)?

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    EL Week 3 MVP Billy Bounce's Avatar
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    so full european league is a euroleague in NBA format(the same clubs every year)?
    I think Federman refers to number of EL games. A competition with only 23 games per season (for EL Final Four team) is hardly a full league. Ever a tiny (11 team) Israeli league has ~ 30 games per season .

    From the next season EL will look like a full league: 30-31 games for FF team & 24 games for Top16 team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Bounce View Post
    I think Federman refers to number of EL games. A competition with only 23 games per season (for EL Final Four team) is hardly a full league. Ever a tiny (11 team) Israeli league has ~ 30 games per season .

    From the next season EL will look like a full league: 30-31 games for FF team & 24 games for Top16 team.
    but he say that the euroleague will turn into full european league in 3 years, and the new top16 format start next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironwill23 View Post
    so full european league is a euroleague in NBA format(the same clubs every year)?
    I think so but not sure . I heard Obradovic saying that he thinks thats great idea and I agree with him . But I would like that much games like NBA teams have .

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    While trying to respect other people opinion, I disagree with them and don't except the whole "heisdevil" image of Jordi Bertomeu. I think that the idea of the full "NBA-model" European league is a very good idea, that will push the European basketball forward, and will raise the popularity and the quality of the game.
    I also think there's no big secret about the final goal of the Euroleague organization, and all the clues lead us in one direction: real league with constant number of games and more or less the same teams each year. This structure provides the financial stability for the clubs and the maximized value for the fans.
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    I'll put it a bit harsh... In Israel, where Maccabi's dominance is taken for granted and is unquestioned, NBA modeled euroleague might seem as a good idea, but within countries that don't consider giving only few teams the priviledge to run whole of their basketball, such development would be a dissaster. Slovenia might be in a pretty simmilar situation as Israel, so I'm getting your point, yet most countries would rightfully disagree...

    Greece: no way they'd earn more than one team in the long run (long run=10+years) and let the red-green arguement who deserves it begin!... maybee even going for a third option in AEK as those two won't be able to agree properly untill than... even thougher as some are still believing in Thessaloniki teams to wake up one day
    Spain: Real and Barca... but wait, what have the Basques, one of the most basketball crazy regions in europe, have done to dislike them up to the level they should abandon all hopes for one great and two very promising teams due to Valencia's or some other city's marketability promise
    Italy: pick Milano, Roma and Napoli, guarantee them an euroleague and you can be deadlock sure they'll become canonfood accordingly, while cutting off basketball crazy Cantu, Varese, Pesaro, Bologna off...
    Turkey: I guess now it's all about Fener, Gala and Bešiktaš, so we can chew Efes and spit them out... who cares about either Ankara or Bursa their fans aren't worth it anyways
    Ex-Yu: as apathic as Zvezda's delije might be right now when it comes to basketball, with some convenient rhetoric and some press propaganda, Partizan set in euroleague for the next 50 years no matter the results (although they're basicaly almost there somewhere for the past 15 years) has potential to evolve in a civil war; Dalmatia still is the heart of Croatian basketball, Split or Zadar in euroleague would probably set an unprecendented euphoria even if once in a decade or so

    ...while with some centralised 24team NBA like euroleague you'd basicaly get (Pao, Oly, Partizan, Milano, Roma, Alba, Bayern, Fener, Gala, Real, Barca, Valencia, London, Paris, Lyon-Asvel, Maccabi, CSKA, team from Zagreb, Partizan, potentialy a Lithuanian, Slovenian, Polish, Belgian and someother team if not overpowered by the economic potential of Vienna, Zurich, Koln, Kopenhagen, Lille, Manchester, St.Petersburg, Prague, Amsterdam... with all that easily leaving out 75% of actuall basketball fans, namely fans of Split, Zadar, Zvezda, Bosna, Pau, Tau, Bilbao, Unicaja, + other decent Spanish teams, Varese, Cantu, whole Bologna, Pesaro, Aris, Paok, AEK, Efes, Tofas, Žalgiris or Rytas (you decide ) and many others.

    That's not really the mentality most of the europe has, football has set different standards in most countries... if Olimpija screws up, what do you expect me, to cheer for Zagreb? Partizan? or some Vienna Thunders? over my dead body... but I'll patiently wait a decade, two or even three... waiting for the comeback of "the only team" i am really devoted to and that's how things work.
    Closed up NBA model would definately kill the attendance euro-wide, with most of the small teams generating the talent, that basicaly means big decrease of the talent production over the period as you can't become a real basketball player on the street playing with your friends. Short term increase of quality doesn't put up with much weaker long term work with talents in small clubs behind the gods back.

    Euroleague can't model themselve on NBA, it's as if the NCAA would decide to play march madness teams only in a closed up league to increase the competition level, now that's a genuine madness sure the competition level would increase, but people wouldn't care about such league half as much as they do now.
    To cut the whole story short: ... it all started and it all ends with fans...

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    Senior Member pohani komarac's Avatar
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    Just like Josko said, I understand Israeli friends as Maccabi is practicly Israeli basketball

    Just looking what Cibona A lices did, gives me idea what what will happen in most of countries

    Croatia might be bas comparison, as our clubs don't have money besides new Cedevita, but let's look at Spain. If eventually Euroleague close all "dors" for rest of competition, there will be no point for other clubs beside those EL teams to invest in basketball so that will eventualy lead that Spain will lose quantity, and when you lose quantitiy you start to lose quality

    2nd, I don't know how this could make basketball more popular? Why would some fan of Bilbao care how Barcelona or Real and idolise their team?

    I understand sometimes you need to change things to impruve, but not evrything is bad

    Croatia might be bad sample, but here is posible scenario: Intresting note from comentator in some video I found few days ago, where young Vrankovic and 16 year old Komazec are facing Sabonis and co... Comentator says: "Zadar is probably only team that has to beg his fans not to come on games"



    Zadar today has problems to colect 1000 fans sometimes. It might be bad sample, but Cibona A licsese played big part in it
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    I think that at Euroleague should be organised like Adriaticc . When Euroleague is finished teams play playoffs in their national leagues and if someone else is better they take their spot in EL next season . It gives hope for other teams like Zvezda , Split etc. to play in EL if they are good enough .

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    I don't think Croatia is a bad example, actualy it's one of those big if's within this story... if Split would get the euroleague they deserved with Radja, Zdovc, Ukić... Sesar? ... adding two decent reinforcements, they'd quite likely do better than Cibona did. Split fans would deservingly get to taste basketball on the top european level once again, god knows how many kids would start playing it accordingly. Cibona would also be able to recuperate & reorganise this way, instead of hunting the results all the time, although it was obvious they're in deep troubles for almost a decade or so.
    Dalmatians will sooner switch even to ice-hockey than support a team from Zagreb in an NBA-type euroleague and I believe that's far from the sole example of local rivalries within europe that make a closed type league impossible for top sports.

    I know i keep repeating myself, but Turkey's case was damn obvious here as Ulker and Efes shouldn't be protected if there are other teams willing to compete as well... god knows what would've happen with Aris, Paok, AEK if given a chance on some occasions... same goes for many Italian and Spanish clubs that got neglected due to some shorthanded marketing strategy by Uleb. I personaly don't care if 95% of fans never heard of Manresa... if they'll be better than Real or Barca or Unicaja or Tau, let them play...

  19. #19
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    We've had this discusion before. A closed EL can work, but it should be segmented in zones. Thatway a lot of teams can be part of it.

    Domestic leagues are in decline, but Jasko Poljak Fan is right, it's important to keep them alive. Perhaps it is better to find a middle way. Like allow fewer teams per domestic league and merge domestic leagues together in zones. Best teams of the zones can play in the EL.
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    EL Week 3 MVP Billy Bounce's Avatar
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    Red face

    I hope those who wish a closed European league fully understand what they wish for : that some EL officials will hand pick clubs they wish to optimize profits/attendance/TV ratings/whatever.

    We've seen enough of it in when EL year-after-year granted B licenses & wildcards to under-performing French & Italian clubs. Do you really think it will save EL ? What if next season EL will decide that Pao/Oly isn't good enough from a view of a potential profits , or flights to Kazan or Tel Aviv are too long and expensive ... Do you really wish it ?

    Closed EL will also render ALL national leagues to the status of mickey-mouse cup..

    EL has a working UEFA model before its eyes . With some subtle modifications it could be adjusted to basketball & we'll finally get transparent & equal for everyone rules.

    Rich clubs will get their safety belt ( for unexpected losing of national championships ) in ranking points averaged over 3-5 years
    Average budget clubs will benefit from continuation of their Euro season in Eurocup, in the case they won't make it EL Top16
    Small budget clubs that played well in their national league will get their chances of qualifying to EL through EL qualifications.


    Hell, with EL UEFA-like coefs, we will be able to fulfill the sacred dream of every IBN member: to classify national leagues strength in some objective manner ..

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