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  • #31
    If I remember correctly, Galatasaray was the runner up in last years TBL, and they had to qualify to play in the EL. So I would say that Besiktas are in qualifications as well unless they become champions of TBL.
    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Victorious View Post
      If I remember correctly, Galatasaray was the runner up in last years TBL, and they had to qualify to play in the EL. So I would say that Besiktas are in qualifications as well unless they become champions of TBL.
      GS was runner-up only the last season.

      I read there are some new things: like now the runner-up of Germany would go to the qualifiers instead of the Greek 3rd. And Valencia can't get the third position. If loses at semis, they'll be fourth yes or yes.
      FIRE THE NEXT ONE!!!
      EŭroKorbo, the useless basketball blog in esperanto.

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      • #33
        After first three years (2009-2012) with no changes the B license (country) ranking - like it had been announced three years ago - from now on will be modified (according to the recent results an developments) on an annual basis. As long as the Euroleague does not publish this new country ranking, we can only speculate, which countries will get how many B-licenses or spots in the qualification round. In Germany they say, that the BBL according to the new ranking like Turkey and France could send their champion into the Euroleague and their runner-up into the qualification round.

        The special agreement between Euroleague and French league (ASVEL wild card) should be no longer valid. Instead there is a new deal with VTB league, but I think, this will work only from the next year on. Also the A-license ranking from now on will have a promotional system (i. e. every year the worst team out of the 13/14 teams with an A-license looses its A-license - another team will become a new A-license holder). Like Mindozas I am not sure about Italy's 2nd A-license: Wasn't it taken away from Roma and given to Milano only for one year?

        Another interesting question will be, if the Euroleague allows A license holders Siena and Barcelona to play in their small arenas, while even CSKA now moves into a big arena to answer Euroleague standards (10.000 minimum).

        Euroleague qualification round will have only 8 teams (instead of 16). One of these 8 qualifies. The 2nd spot, which in the last season was reserved for the winner of the second quali tournament, becomes a wild card. Looks like in this summer there's more room for speculations about the 24 Euroleague teams than ever …

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        • #34
          Damn, typed a long message, but lost it with a forum bug

          A short version:

          I agree that all attempts to figure out future EL teams are speculations, especially minding EL habit of changing the rules each summer.

          However , there is plenty public accessible info that could clarify the whole picture:

          Financial situation of clubs that won EL spot, but could not afford to participate in it budget wise.
          For example Hopoel Holon won BSL a couple of years ago, but every child in Israel knew that they won't play in Euro competitions at all, let alone EL

          Some club getting new arena is another factor. It's known that EL has a soft spot for new markets , rich clubs & new big arenas. Spartak St. Peterburg has it all, so they are natural choice for EL wild card .

          Last edited by Billy Bounce; 05-29-2012, 10:41 AM.

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          • #35
            Greece won't lose the third place team going to the qualifiers if the new rankings are based on game results. Because Greece should actually move up in the rankings. The problem for Greece's spot is that they base 30% of the ranking on "arena size and attendance". So, that would probably lose them the place. However, the Panionios owner is willing to spend the money to move them into a new arena.

            H εξέλιξη της τεχνικής δεξιότητας της ντρίπλας και η εξάσκηση όλων των πιθανών τελειωμάτων αναβαθμίζουν το παιχνίδι της νέας γενιάς!


            Jordi Bertomeou has great respect for Panionios’ owner and a conversation between the two may take place next week. There has already been a conversation with Kostas Rigas, who left a window open for Panionios, even though he clarified that there are not many chances. Some chances though, do exist, especially from the moment that there is a ranking for every country, based on the achievements of each team. And this year, with Greek basketball having two representatives in the Euroleague Final Four, and also having the last two champions, Greece for sure will be high in this ranking.

            If Panionios makes it to the preliminaries, they will try to use as a home court, the beautiful arena used in the 2004 Olympiacos for Tae Kwon Do in Paleo Faliro, since Elliniko is not available any more.
            If they play in Eurocup, then they will stay in Nea Smyrni, as long as they make some improvements inside the small city owned gym.


            I'm not sure why Helliniko isn't available anymore, as it passed the city's land survey. But anyway, Jordi loves those teams with shiny new arenas. So, I bet that gets Panionios in there. What would be the excuse then? Greece would be high in the national rankings and Panionios would be playing in a nice arena ---> faliro8th.jpg

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            • #36
              Thanks for correction, Mindozas.

              Victorious, Turkish finalist placed at border of direct spots/qualification , so even a small change of giving only one EL ticket to qualifiers give them a direct spot.

              Prokom and Milano are in anyways, regardless of their A license.

              Seed1
              FC Barcelona
              Olympiacos
              Maccabi
              Panathinaikos

              Seed2
              Montepaschi
              Real Madrid
              CSKA
              Caja Laboral ( Valencia could shift them into Seed3 , if qualifies)

              Seed3
              Khimki ( C-license)
              Partizan ( B- license)
              Unicaja
              Efes Pilsen

              Seed4
              Zalgiris
              Fenerbahce
              Prokom
              AJ Milano


              B Licence: ( Places 17-23)
              Cedevita ( Croatia, Adriatic)
              Olimpija ( Slovenia, Adriatic)
              Brose Basket ( Germany, likely champ )
              Besiktas (Turkey, Finalist )
              (France, champ)
              (France, 2-nd)
              Valencia ( Spain, likely 3-rd)


              EL Qualification ( Places 1-8 )

              Banco di Sardegna/Scavolini Siviglia ( Italy, 3-rd )
              Panionios ( Greece, 3-rd )
              Charleroi/Oostende ( Belgium, champ)
              VEF Riga ( Latvia, champ)
              L. Rytas
              Nymburk
              BC Donetsk
              Buducnost ( Adriatic, 3-rd )
              EiffelTowers ( if Valencia 4th in ACB, Netherlands, champ)


              My guess Jordi will get Valencia into EL: after all they're top4 ACB & EC runners-up. Probably a trick with Khimki C-license given to Valencia as EC 2-nd place.

              What about those guys arenas : Banco di Sardegna, Scavolini Siviglia , Panionios, Buducnost, EiffelTowers ? Could they meet EL requirement of 5k arena ?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Olympiacos View Post
                Jordi loves those teams with shiny new arenas.
                But he hates empty seats ...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Billy Bounce View Post
                  Thanks for correction, Mindozas.

                  Victorious, Turkish finalist placed at border of direct spots/qualification , so even a small change of giving only one EL ticket to qualifiers give them a direct spot.

                  Prokom and Milano are in anyways, regardless of their A license.

                  Seed1
                  FC Barcelona
                  Olympiacos
                  Maccabi
                  Panathinaikos

                  Seed2
                  Montepaschi
                  Real Madrid
                  CSKA
                  Caja Laboral ( Valencia could shift them into Seed3 , if qualifies)

                  Seed3
                  Khimki ( C-license)
                  Partizan ( B- license)
                  Unicaja
                  Efes Pilsen

                  Seed4
                  Zalgiris
                  Fenerbahce
                  Prokom
                  AJ Milano


                  B Licence: ( Places 17-23)
                  Cedevita ( Croatia, Adriatic)
                  Olimpija ( Slovenia, Adriatic)
                  Brose Basket ( Germany, likely champ )
                  Besiktas (Turkey, Finalist )
                  (France, champ)
                  (France, 2-nd)
                  Valencia ( Spain, likely 3-rd)


                  EL Qualification ( Places 1-8 )

                  Banco di Sardegna/Scavolini Siviglia ( Italy, 3-rd )
                  Panionios ( Greece, 3-rd )
                  Charleroi/Oostende ( Belgium, champ)
                  VEF Riga ( Latvia, champ)
                  L. Rytas
                  Nymburk
                  BC Donetsk
                  Buducnost ( Adriatic, 3-rd )
                  EiffelTowers ( if Valencia 4th in ACB, Netherlands, champ)


                  My guess Jordi will get Valencia into EL: after all they're top4 ACB & EC runners-up. Probably a trick with Khimki C-license given to Valencia as EC 2-nd place.

                  What about those guys arenas : Banco di Sardegna, Scavolini Siviglia , Panionios, Buducnost, EiffelTowers ? Could they meet EL requirement of 5k arena ?
                  Bodućnost's Morača is somewhere at 4500 capacity (potentially 5000 at max. in case of EL I'm sure they'd work something out), Scavolini Pesaro has Adriatic arena with around 10500 capacity
                  Originally posted by Jon_Koncak
                  That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Olympiacos View Post

                    I'm not sure why Helliniko isn't available anymore, as it passed the city's land survey. But anyway, Jordi loves those teams with shiny new arenas. So, I bet that gets Panionios in there. What would be the excuse then? Greece would be high in the national rankings and Panionios would be playing in a nice arena ---> [ATTACH=CONFIG]4084[/ATTACH]
                    Why isn't Helleniko available? Does it have something to do with a certain team with red and white colors which also happens to be the new European champion?
                    They were always keen in moving to Helliniko. The arena is excelent.
                    PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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                    • #40
                      Russian "Sport-Express" wrote about new system/rating of upcoming EL season(s). I don't know how credible it is, but you can check it there. Sorry, don't have time for translation, but IMO google translate will make it clear, atleast what comes to rating changes of countries

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                      • #41
                        You have posted the wrong link. This is the right one :

                        http://www.sport-express.ru/newspaper/2012-05-30/6_2/

                        The rankings published in this article for me look quite reliable. At least they confirm everything, whichI heard from reliable sources in recent weeks, especially at the Final Four in Istanbul.

                        New is, that in the B-license ranking 3rd places in national championships don't count any longer. Bertomeu prefers champions and runner-ups.

                        The big looser in the B-license ranking would be Polish champion, which drops into the qualifying round. Italy looses its 3rd spot. There are only 12 A-licenses left. Will a new 13th one be granted (for example to Milan)?

                        Anyway, according to the rankings published by "Sport-Express" the Euroleague 2012/13 will look like this:

                        Euroleague 2012/13
                        Spain: Barcelona, Real, Baskonia, Malaga (+ Valencia, if Finalist)
                        Russia: CSKA, Khimki
                        Greece: Olympiakos, Pana
                        Italy: Siena + runner up (probably Milan)
                        Turkey: Efes, Fener, Besiktas (if Champion or if Valencia not in ACB Finals)
                        France: Champion
                        Germany: Bamberg/Ulm
                        Lithuania: Zalgiris, Rytas (depending on Besiktas not champion or Valencia not Finalist)
                        Adriatic: Partizan, Cedevita, Ljubljana
                        Israel: Maccabi TA
                        + Wild Card (instead of 2nd quali spot)
                        + Wild Card (instead of Khimkis c-license - Khimki has B-license)
                        + Winner Quali

                        12 possibilities for 8 spots in Qualification round (in order of ranking):
                        Wild Card? (RUS, GRE, or ITA)
                        Rytas (if not qualified directly)
                        Besiktas (if not directly qualified)
                        Gravelines??? (has no Euroleague arena - Wild card FRA instead?)
                        Ulm/Bamberg (runner-up Germany)
                        Buducnost (for Adriatic League)
                        Charleroi/Oostende (Belgium)
                        Donezk (Ucraine)
                        Asseco Prokom/ Trefl Sopot (Poland)
                        Lukoil Academic (Bulgaria)
                        Den Bosch (NL)
                        VEF Riga (Latvia)
                        Last edited by Hot Spot; 05-30-2012, 10:43 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Interesting link, thanks for posting.

                          The way I understand SportEx doesn't provide a source of ranking list, but it seems legit.

                          In some sense this list is arranged according to best EL traditions : a complete reshuffle of the rules , fine-tuned precise enough to get in the clubs they want and to get rid of clubs they don't want .

                          They get rid of Panionios & 3-rd Italian (Banco di Sardegna/Scavolini Siviglia ) : clubs that would need to sell their soul to get budgets that will allow them to be competitive.

                          The ones that got in : Ulm from Germany ( the only thing I know about Ulm that Einstein was born there ) , L.Rytas ( I don't believe Valencia will beat Barca to spoil them ). If Wikipedia doesn't lie : both clubs have new fancy arenas .

                          Dunno how Bulgaria got higher ranking then Latvia & Netherlands : I don't remember Lukoil doing wonders in Euro competitions, but do remember Latvian VEF : pretty solid team.

                          Here is a link of the suggested system with clubs added as for today ( except Spain & France, non A license clubs marked yellow)
                          Sheet1 Rank,League,Places,Clubs (Champions),Places,Clubs ( Runners Up) 1,Spain,1,Real/Barca,12,Caja/Valencia 2,Russia,2,CSKA,13,Khimki 3,Greece,3,Oly/Pao,14,Pao/Oly 4,Italy,4,Siena/Milano,15,Milano/Siena 5,Turkey,5,Besiktas/Efes,17,Efes/Besiktas 6,France,6,LeMan/Chalon,18,Cholet/Orleans 7,Germany,7
                          Last edited by Billy Bounce; 05-30-2012, 01:34 PM.

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                          • #43
                            I'm not sure if sport-express is correct in case of Prokom not having A-license.

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                            • #44
                              Yes, this news about Prokom's A-license always was a litte mysterious. On one hand we have this official announcement on Prokom's homepage. On the other hand in the Official BYELAWS of the Euroleague 2011/2012 Prokom indeed was NOT listed among the A-license holders.

                              Maybe interest in Asseco Prokom has been reduced, because the big times are over? They don't have that much money anymore and Trefl Sopot in the Polish finals just beat them 83-57 infront of more than 10.000 fans ... Who knows?

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                              • #45
                                I think we discussed the situation of Prokom A-license a while ago.

                                Prokom is playing in small 5k arena, but has 11k+ shiny new arena nearby .

                                Jordi gave them A-license, with their transfer to 11k arena in his mind, but it didn't worked out.

                                Prokom hasn't invested enough to compete with big sharks & draw 10k crowd - to justify thier transfer to big arena Moreover from next season they don't meet A-license 10k+ requirement.

                                As a result, unless something unexpected would happen, Prokom will lose A-license
                                Last edited by Billy Bounce; 05-30-2012, 05:52 PM. Reason: gramma

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