SBP Long-Term National Pool (Vol. XVII)

[durden_tyler]

If there are no injuries by December 2012: Castro, Dillinger, Norwood, David, Santos, Cabagnot, De Ocampo, Aguilar, Slaughter and Douthit can form the core. The coaching group has to take risks on promising youngsters with international experience like Ravena and Parks, who must be included or the experience dies again with the old ones.

Devance and Thoss, though useful in the power forward slot, seem to be slowing down. One year older (by 2013) and they may have serious difficulties with the younger power forwards of China, Iran and South Korea. I like the Sinag/NLEX players and I hope that Chot will get reserves and scrimmage players from the group. If no extra good power forward comes out by December 2012, Thoss may have to be selected as he at least is consistent in his efforts.

Again, this is just a fantasy lineup, and is irrelevant. I don't know which players will be comfortable working with the coaching group for the kind of hard practices that a national team is all about. If they train only at PBA level, this fantasy lineup will still get smoked easily.

See? It's easier just answering it plainly. No hate, no biases, just an opinion of a fan who wants to share.

Question, when you say "take risks on the youngsters" do you mean giving them actual game time? (Or probably when it's a blowout, some major floor burn) In my opinion, you insert them in the line-up as the 14-15th men because they'd be learning a lot even in practices.

Again, this is just a fantasy lineup, and is irrelevant.

Irrelevant but still a good point for discussion after all it's OUR national team

[acklium]

See? It's easier just answering it plainly. No hate, no biases, just an opinion of a fan who wants to share.

Question, when you say "take risks on the youngsters" do you mean giving them actual game time? (Or probably when it's a blowout, some major floor burn) In my opinion, you insert them in the line-up as the 14-15th men because they'd be learning a lot even in practices.



Irrelevant but still a good point for discussion after all it's OUR national team

ehem..

let them play during the middle part of some quarters could give them a good grasp of the game.but i think parks can also be a starter for 1 or 2 positions unlike to keifer which could be a defensive liability specially for tall line up.

[durden_tyler]

ehem..

let them play during the middle part of some quarters could give them a good grasp of the game.but i think parks can also be a starter for 1 or 2 positions unlike to keifer which could be a defensive liability specially for tall line up.

Well there's danger as well in putting them as the 11th-12th in the line-up. What happens when one of the key rotation players goes down due to injury or is in foul trouble? Do we take that risk?

[dtfernando]

I have yet to see at least 20 of the top players scrimmage together. It is only when they play together that one can have a real basis for selection. The top 12 players I identified are still rather small by international standards so I have to see them against other "national" teams to see whether they complement each other and have the physical presence to withstand the kind of huge and mobile frontliners that we are seeing lately in Asian games. These top players certainly are not embarrassing by local standards. But if they play together for only 3-4 months, I wouldn't be surprised to see them lose in the dangerous stages of FIBA elimination games.

The real reason though why I keep holding back on public forums about player selection is that it affects both the selected and non-selected players negatively. Those outside the top 12 may not want to participate actively anymore in preparatory games, while those in the top 12 think they are entitled as FINAL players, and would not respect any decision to replace them later. We've seen this kind of behavior before.

[analyzed]

To analyzed: Look, you're absolutely confused. Let me just tell you straight up that the PBA, like FIBA, allows all kinds of team defenses, including zone. Right now, the PBA is allowing imports of unlimited height but for a short conference only. You know why? Because tall imports cost more than the smaller ones. The imposition of import height limits is for purely economic reasons and has nothing to do with cultivating a culture of mediocrity.

Yes I admit, I overlooked that the illegal offense rule was not reinstated after Eala left. Man , do i have to do a million hail Mary's as a sign of my repentance for my wrongdoing.
The limiting of imports heghts due to economic reasons simply does not make sense. Remember it's not a minimum height rule they are applying but a maximum height rule. So in practical terms if a team can't afford to pay a big import, the unlimited height rule is not stopping them to avail of a small import. So in essence what does the rule have to do with getting a small import that you can afford? Nothing actually. No one is forcing the teams to get a big import they can't afford.

Now this talk about line-ups. I think it all boils down to the contraints and avaialble time each group can give. From the collegiate players, MVP teams and SMC. Honestly given that FIBA asia runs in conflict with the UAAP season, i don't see any of the playrs still in college next year making the final line-up. (not the pool). As to MVP and SMC teams, really boils down to how much time they can give.. Oh Btw to the suprise of many I'm for a predominatly PBA line-up. but it all depends on avaialbilty (certainly not if there simply given 2 weeks)

On the point of size per postion, I actually don't put to much emphasis on the size for guards although it is a factor, I do for the forwards and bigs but not the point. What is really more important is if they play big. Chris Paul is small for NBA standards but he plays big on the court. I also think Castro although only 5'10 plays big, If you look at the size of his hands, length and atheticim , he actually plays bigger than most 6 foot players. The thing to also remember for a big Asian guard standing 6, 3'' will actually find it more difficult to handle a speedy 5'8'' to 5'10""guard than a 6'2 slow with questionable skills.

On another point, this recent event of Yap simply being sent to play outside of the PBA with a live PBA contract is an eye openner. It follows then that if Lutz decides to play outside of the PBA (example join Gilas) when his contract expires, there should be no repacusions or suanctions on him. Whether he makes that move is another thing however

[mikepogi]

Since we are putting up our line-up, then I will put in mine

Douthit / Thoss (If Taulava retires from NT.. If not then I will put him there as Thoss replacement)
Williams / DeOcampo / Aguilar (I feel like I am wasting one spot on Japeth.. But he is the only player above 6'6 who is an athletic big man that can run the floor)
Lassiter / Lutz / Ababou
David / Yap
Casio / Cabagnot

Reserve (for development)
Slaughter *
Parks *
Ravena *

* For development.. I feel like of all the Sinag players, Parks is probably the best player to crack the final 12

If SMC wont be involved, then I would pick..

Douthit / Thoss
Williams / De Ocampo / Aguilar
Lassiter / Dillinger
David / Parks / Norwood
Casio / Reyes

Reserves
Slaughter
Ravena

[Alex07]

sinag newbies

Adding up newbies is very essential.I hope Chot is looking at Sinag players like Parks,Ravena and Ellis.I'm leaning more on Parks and Ellis to be our 11th and 12th man because at 6'4 and 6'5,they could easily fill up the shooting guard and small forward slot.They'll have to contend against Norwood (if he's going to be loaned by rain or shine),Dillinger who is MVP's employee and maybe Lutz and Lassiter.

The power forward's slot remains to be problematic..Japeth needs to improve while the Kraken is having trouble getting minutes and points in the ABL.Just like Aguilar,The Kraken should adjust in playing against taller,heavier players. Douthit will be assisted by Slaughter at the center position while Chot should consider inviting Alaska's Eman Samigue to be on the pool.Samigue could be hella slow but I think he's improving and you don't see a 6'10 local player everyday.

again for the nth time.It would be nice to see a Pringle or a Banchero on the lineup but guys like Castro and Cabagnot could also do a decent job at the point slot.

[mikepogi]

Taller imports are more expensive. And I agree, but PBA's reluctance to change their calendar during FIBA season that would allow at least 6 months worth of training and preparations shows inflexibility of the PBA to be really committed to the National team. Although this would be up for discussion of course. But I dont know how they can work around this if PBA wont shorten their season.. I hope I am wrong..

[mikepogi]

Adding up newbies is very essential.I hope Chot is looking at Sinag players like Parks,Ravena and Ellis.I'm leaning more on Parks and Ellis to be our 11th and 12th man because at 6'4 and 6'5,they could easily fill up the shooting guard and small forward slot.They'll have to contend against Norwood (if he's going to be loaned by rain or shine),Dillinger who is MVP's employee and maybe Lutz and Lassiter.The power forwards slot remains to be problematic..Japeth needs to improve while the Kraken is having trouble getting minutes and points in the ABL.Just like Aguilar,The Kraken should adjust in playing against taller,heavier players. Douthit will be assisted by Slaughter at the center position while Chot should consider inviting Alaska's Eman Samigue to be on the pool.Samigue could be hella slow but I think he's improving and you don't see a 6'10 local player everyday.

Wont they have problems with Ellis eligibility the same way that they did with Lutz and Lassiter...

[Alex07]

Wont they have problems with Ellis eligibility the same way that they did with Lutz and Lassiter...

I don't know about this but like Lutz and Lassiter, Ellis already played in an official Fiba tourney in the SEA games.

[mikepogi]

I don't know about this but like Lutz and Lassiter, Ellis already played in an official Fiba tourney in the SEA games.

So did Lutz and Lassiter.. And it took us bypassing the Fiba-Asia Exec Commitee, a phone call from the Fiba president, and tons of prayer, to get these players eligible..

The thing is I think with the Fiba President (from Qatar) losing its influence, its hard to pass of Fil-Ams who have no birth certificate or passport (before they turned 15) to pass off as Filipinos.. To them they are still considered as naturalized players.. And I dont see any changes on the Fiba-Asia commitee.. The same people are still running the tournament...

[JAMSKIE]

I don't know about this but like Lutz and Lassiter, Ellis already played in an official Fiba tourney in the SEA games.

And by playing for RP in the SEA games, it means Ellis was issued a Filipino passport w/c makes him a legitimate Filipino citizen. At least that's what our law states. Is Chriss Ellis mother a pure-blooded Filipina? If so, then Ellis is a natural born Filipino, just like Lassiter & Lutz.

[mikepogi]

And by playing for RP in the SEA games, it means Ellis was issued a Filipino passport w/c makes him a legitimate Filipino citizen. At least that's what our law states. Is Chriss Ellis mother a pure-blooded Filipina? If so, then Ellis is a natural born Filipino, just like Lassiter & Lutz.

I think thats not enough anymore.. They have to get their passport before they turned 15.. We wont problems with Parks since he already played in the Youth Olympics, which means he got his passport before when he was 15 since the age limit there is 16.. Plus I think he was born in the Philippines so he has a birth certificate...

[JAMSKIE]

So did Lutz and Lassiter.. And it took us bypassing the Fiba-Asia Exec Commitee, a phone call from the Fiba president, and tons of prayer, to get these players eligible..

The thing is I think with the Fiba President (from Qatar) losing its influence, its hard to pass of Fil-Ams who have no birth certificate or passport (before they turned 15) to pass off as Filipinos.. To them they are still considered as naturalized players.. And I dont see any changes on the Fiba-Asia commitee.. The same people are still running the tournament...

From my humble understanding it was just a misunderstanding of FIBA rules regarding eligibility that made a FIBA-asia oficial named Hagop Karijan to disallow Lutz & Lassiter to play for Smart Gilas in a No. of games. No less than FIBA sec. gen. Patrick Baumann intervened & cleared Lutz & Lassiter to play. From what I understand, there's a provision/ provisions in the FIBA rules that would exempt Lutz & Lassiter w/ the "secure a passport be4 the age of 15 or 16" rule. Both Lassiter & Lutz are natural born Filipinos by virtue of having a Filipino parent at the time of their births and that's what our Constitution states.

A certain poster here posted a news a few days ago about BJ Mullens & Ben Gordon obtaining British passports just recently as a preparation for their posible stint with the Great Britain nat'l. team in this year's Olympics. It would be interesting whether FIBA would allow Mullens & Gordon to play for GB. The fact that both players obtained British passports just recently means that there's no way they can comply with the "secure a passport be4 the age 15/16 rule". We all know that whatever ruling FIBA would make is a precedent-setting.

[mikepogi]

From my humble understanding it was just a misunderstanding of FIBA rules regarding eligibility that made a FIBA-asia oficial named Hagop Karijan to disallow Lutz & Lassiter to play for Smart Gilas in a No. of games. No less than FIBA sec. gen. Patrick Baumann intervened & cleared Lutz & Lassiter to play. From what I understand, there's a provision/ provisions in the FIBA rules that would exempt Lutz & Lassiter w/ the "secure a passport be4 the age of 15 or 16" rule. Both Lassiter & Lutz are natural born Filipinos by virtue of having a Filipino parent at the time of their births and that's what our Constitution states.

A certain poster here posted a news a few days ago about BJ Mullens & Ben Gordon obtaining British passports just recently as a preparation for their posible stint with the Great Britain nat'l. team in this year's Olympics. It would be interesting whether FIBA would allow Mullens & Gordon to play for GB. The fact that both players obtained British passports just recently means that there's no way they can comply with the "secure a passport be4 the age 15/16 rule". We all know that whatever ruling FIBA would make is a precedent-setting.

Well I agree with you.. In terms of having Gordon and Mullens play for England on the Olympics, then there is no reason why they cant allow player like Ellis to be eligible..

As far as misunderstanding with the Sec Gen.. I think he was pretty firm on that one.. Had we not bypassed his authority and went straight to Fiba, Lutz and Lassiter would have not played. The problem is we cant always go to Bauman everytime. It will be interesting how SBP will handle this.. I suggest they call up Fiba-Asia, and have them check a clear ground rules on the eligibilty before we even start forming a 25-man lineup. The last thing we want is to have our players barred from playing at the last minute...