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  • Originally posted by tito thoots View Post
    I guess I'd have to come in too to try to clarify matters from a development perspective like what Eala must have been thinking about restricting zone defenses. Zone defenses should not be allowed at the start of every players careers. It takes out a lot of the basic instinctive skills that hae to be developed to be a good all round player. Zone defenses while it is easy to teach and master as it relies on whole teams working together is not really good for individual development. I guess he wanted the players to go back to basics and he was right. However, in order to compete internationally, we have to be beyond the basics and develop a team type defense that would now suit or compensate our individual strengths.
    And your right, PBA does allow and employ a variety of defenses not just your straight up man and 2-3 or 3-2 floating zones. I don't have to follow though a season to see that. My bad sweeping generalizations though create more animosity than positive reactions.
    Why are you answering for analyzed? Anyway, good points i would think it came from him...
    If there is no basketball in heaven, i am NOT going.

    SMALLBALL, bitches..

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
      Good point! If CBA teams play w/ 2 imports each, then an import won't be able to score as much as he could score being the lone import for a particular team. I do believe that an import's statistics (specially in scoring) depends on a lot of factors. For instance an import who is paired w/ an explosive scoring import won't really have to score that much as compared to an import who is paired w/ someone who is not that good in scoring. One factor could also be on what kind of team or what kind teammates a certain import play w/. Marcus Douthit for instance really has to assert himself much in scoring playing for Air 21 becoz there aren't many scorers in the team. But what if Douthit plays for teams like Talk N' Text or Ginebra where he can get enough scoring support from the locals, does he need to score that much to win?

      Nevertheless, Douthit could only averaged 20 Pts./game after 3 games w/ Air-21, while he averaged 19 pts./game w/ a CBA team in China. And this. as U pointed out, game duration in the PBA is 48 minutes while game duration in CBA is only 40 mins.
      Let me correct you, CBA is also 48 minutes, that's why the game score is always high

      Comment


      • Originally posted by durden_tyler View Post
        Why are you answering for analyzed? Anyway, good points i would think it came from him...
        Don't worry DT. I'm my own man. I don't have to agree or disagree with anyone's point of view. at this stage in my life, I would think I know a lot about basketball already but I'm mistaken. My friend analyzed has his points if he can just lay off generalizing.I believe that the best players in the Philippines are in the PBA but I don't think that they can be tapped and give their 100% time,effort and talents for the national cause . they are pros first and foremost meaning they have to submit to higher authorities not necessarily the most nationalistic ones who give out their pay checks. How I would love to see our best and brightest pros finally have the time to get together and make one united stand. Unfortunately, we have to make do with the limited talents we have outside the pro league sometimes and try to make them overachieve.

        NATURE vs NURTURE. Think about it.

        I believe Kiefer is the best Nurtured talent locally but nature would have it that he stands less than his dad.
        I believe that Ray-Ray is a lot more NATURALLy gifted than his father ever was but nature would have it that he competes locally instead of America.


        I won't make Analyzed mistake of sweeping generalizations but this whole concept is by far what matter most.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by durden_tyler View Post
          i have to ask though, we know Toroman's offensive system but what kind of defense does he use aside from the basics? Toroman was an offensive coach first before defense, correct? i don't remember any special traps or defensive scheme. i might have failed to notice so please enlighten me.
          I do not have to enlighten you. I already said in an earlier post that the defense to be employed by Chot must be better than Toroman's because as you and a thousand other Pinoys already know that Toroman's take on defense is just a notch higher than that used for collegiate ball. This is not unusual as like other Serbian coaches, he always was used to having Serbian teams that have equal or better quickness, shooting and size; the kind that most Asian teams do not yet have at this time.

          Trapping is certainly not a Toroman specialty either; at national team level though, trapping may not be that effective as most nations send in players with pretty good ball-handling and quick-passing skills. It can work against Indonesia and Viet Nam, but not against South Korea and China.

          This is where Chot and his allied coaches now have a difficult choice. Most of the shooters he can bring, including David, are not particularly good in individual defense. The kind of team defense he uses in the PBA is worthwhile; but it probably will work only against equally small teams (his TnT personnel for the 4 and 5 defense won't work against the much heftier and taller nationals of top Asian nations, and Douthit can't handle stronger centers like Haddadi). Jacobs adjusted by telling his short national team players to use every trick in the book to slow down or discomfit opponents. There may not be enough tricks left though as our incoming national teams' capabilities, unlike Jacob's team, have now been fully Youtubed and televised around and have few secrets left.

          Briefly then, guarding other guards won't be the worrisome aspect of the Chot national team's capabilities. He can stun other national teams by bringing very hard physical defense at the 4 and 5 -- which was never realized internationally other than in Jacob's team. Toroman's style of virtually leaving Douthit alone in the middle simply does not work. Toro failed to appreciate that if one sees his own team center being mauled by the opposing lion centers, demoralization sets in for the smaller players. (Ask the Miami Heat players about this.) He was not used to seeing this because he was used to having lots of bigger Serbian (and Iranian) players to defend seven-foot centers and power forwards.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by durden_tyler View Post
            i guess you just have to understand the hate? Because they won't attempt to understand it from your perspective?



            Sir, it's not like you have a better option (assuming of course, there is a better option) because the table has been set: Chot Reyes is your goddamn national team coach! And MOST likely, it's going to be a PBA select team because that's how Reyes rolls. Knowing that, what do you want to do with these limitations and parameters?
            Again, I would like to emphasize that I'm not against a PBA-selection Nat'l team. I believe that talent-wise, PBA superstars are the best ballers we have in the country. But again, I would like to emphasize that having the finest talents from the PBA will not guarantee a respectable performance by team Pilipinas in FIBA-Asia as history will tell us. How did we perform in 2007 & 2009 FIBA-Asia in which we send the best talents in the PBA to don the RP colors? And why did we falter despite having the "best" talents? Simply becoz the team lacked cohesion & preparation w/c are vital factors.

            The reality would remain that unless our beloved PBA does significant sacrifices for the sake of collective national interest, we can't form a well prepared & cohesive enough national team. Next year's FIBA-Asia may be more than a year from now but let's not be "deceived" & be misled into thinking that Gilas-2 will have an abundance of time to prepare itself for the coming tournament. Becoz of the PBA's hectic & extremely long season w/c runs for no less than 10 months, our national players will have limited time to train on a "full-time" basis. Fact is, Gilas-2 training pool w/c would be a mixture of PBA & amateur hopefuls would have limited period to train w/ a "complete" roster becoz of the conflict of schedules of availability of pros & amateurs. The PBA season will end in August, thus PBA superstars would be available for the training pool during that time. But "some" of the amateur hopefuls (like Ravena, RR Garcia, Parks, Slaughter, Sanggalang, etc) or the so called "cadets" won't be available becoz the collegiate tournaments UAAP & NCAA would be on going at that time. The UAAP & NCAA tournaments will end in late september or early october (thus Ravena & company will be available for the training pool) but that would be the time when the PBA opens another season, thus PBA cagers won't be available for the training pool during that time.

            I have supported Philippine basketball for more than 20 years now. I have rooted & cheered for every Philippine basketball team regardless of who the players or the coaches were & I have seen the struggles of Philippine basketball in the past 2 decades. Just like most of U, my heart bleeds everytime our national team falters or gets humiliated in international competitions. I couldn't be happier than to see Philippine basketball regain it's lofty placing in Asia.

            I am for a well prepared, cohesive & well coached Philippine team whether it's an All-PBA Nat'l. team or a pro-amateur mixed nat'l. team. We may differ in our opinions, we may have contradicting views & analysis, but one thing I'm certain of - we will always be on the same team!
            "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Zhang View Post
              Let me correct you, CBA is also 48 minutes, that's why the game score is always high
              Ok, I didn't know it. I stand corrected anyway. Thanks for the correction!
              "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
                I do not have to enlighten you. I already said in an earlier post that the defense to be employed by Chot must be better than Toroman's because as you and a thousand other Pinoys already know that Toroman's take on defense is just a notch higher than that used for collegiate ball. This is not unusual as like other Serbian coaches, he always was used to having Serbian teams that have equal or better quickness, shooting and size; the kind that most Asian teams do not yet have at this time.

                Trapping is certainly not a Toroman specialty either; at national team level though, trapping may not be that effective as most nations send in players with pretty good ball-handling and quick-passing skills. It can work against Indonesia and Viet Nam, but not against South Korea and China.

                This is where Chot and his allied coaches now have a difficult choice. Most of the shooters he can bring, including David, are not particularly good in individual defense. The kind of team defense he uses in the PBA is worthwhile; but it probably will work only against equally small teams (his TnT personnel for the 4 and 5 defense won't work against the much heftier and taller nationals of top Asian nations, and Douthit can't handle stronger centers like Haddadi). Jacobs adjusted by telling his short national team players to use every trick in the book to slow down or discomfit opponents. There may not be enough tricks left though as our incoming national teams' capabilities, unlike Jacob's team, have now been fully Youtubed and televised around and have few secrets left.

                Briefly then, guarding other guards won't be the worrisome aspect of the Chot national team's capabilities. He can stun other national teams by bringing very hard physical defense at the 4 and 5 -- which was never realized internationally other than in Jacob's team. Toroman's style of virtually leaving Douthit alone in the middle simply does not work. Toro failed to appreciate that if one sees his own team center being mauled by the opposing lion centers, demoralization sets in for the smaller players. (Ask the Miami Heat players about this.) He was not used to seeing this because he was used to having lots of bigger Serbian (and Iranian) players to defend seven-foot centers and power forwards.
                would it be effective if the players that will man the paint together with douthit are hybrid?
                or using hybrid players which can play multiple positions will increase the defensive prowess of the team from guard to forwards?

                the defensive tactics of chot reyes with the TNT is really effective since most of their players can handle the multiple positions, kelly can slide down from 5 to 2, harvey from 5 to 3, peek from 5-4, reyes from 1 - 3.
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                • Originally posted by tito thoots View Post
                  Don't worry DT. I'm my own man. I don't have to agree or disagree with anyone's point of view. at this stage in my life, I would think I know a lot about basketball already but I'm mistaken.
                  Good to hear that. On the same note, i do not admit i know everything but i do realize that other people fail to see it from all perspective so i have to assume the asshole-PBA-lover kuno here to play devil's advocate. It's a healthy stand because i do not want to be in a forum where everyone just sees it from one side. Simply, there are always two sides in a coin.

                  My friend analyzed has his points if he can just lay off generalizing.I believe that the best players in the Philippines are in the PBA but I don't think that they can be tapped and give their 100% time,effort and talents for the national cause . they are pros first and foremost meaning they have to submit to higher authorities not necessarily the most nationalistic ones who give out their pay checks. How I would love to see our best and brightest pros finally have the time to get together and make one united stand. Unfortunately, we have to make do with the limited talents we have outside the pro league sometimes and try to make them overachieve.
                  Again, i agree especially for the bolded part. But situation (i.e. greed, business interest) does not allow it. Or rather, the situation makes it difficult process. i would love to see the best and brightest don the national team jersey as well. That will only happen if we'll have a leader that can unify the federation. We thought that was MVP then. But it did NOT happen. Is there still a chance? i would love to think so.

                  NATURE vs NURTURE. Think about it. I believe Kiefer is the best Nurtured talent locally but nature would have it that he stands less than his dad.
                  I believe that Ray-Ray is a lot more NATURALLy gifted than his father ever was but nature would have it that he competes locally instead of America.
                  Again, the situation is NOT ideal. You have Parks Sr. looking out for Jr.: was it a selfish move? In a way it was, but it was not a wrong decision considering everything.


                  I won't make Analyzed mistake of sweeping generalizations but this whole concept is by far what matter most.
                  That's all i ask as well. We all have our own criticisms and opinions but let's be open to ALL ideas as well and not be clouded by our own judgement/bias. i fall to it sometimes but i do realize when i am mistaken and admit it.
                  If there is no basketball in heaven, i am NOT going.

                  SMALLBALL, bitches..

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ArAg0n View Post
                    It seems you are very confident about your PBA + Naturalized team. That we can't go wrong. Think China. They don't even need a naturalized player(Yi Jin Lian, can fill that spot), they are tall, and they hit their outside shots.

                    PBA players are more athletic - Yeah! I guess that's the reason why we don't have anybody even close to playing in the NBA huh?

                    I have faith in our players, but your so called formula is not a sure way in getting us back in the basketball map. A team needs chemistry, and we need players who will take over these PBA players once they get old. Look at most of the PBA selection everybody here is nominating. Most of them are in their 30's, or will be by 2013. So what happens come 2015? Use PBA players again with no international experience?
                    Korek! He's not just confident, he's also cocky. I also would like to be optimistic w/ an "All-PBA nat'l. team", but my mind warns me to have just a "guarded optimism". Regaining Asian basketball supremacy will take more than just having the "best" PBA cagers for the Philippine team. And history will tell us that.

                    Being optimistic & cocky are two different things.
                    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by acklium View Post
                      would it be effective if the players that will man the paint together with douthit are hybrid?
                      or using hybrid players which can play multiple positions will increase the defensive prowess of the team from guard to forwards?

                      the defensive tactics of chot reyes with the TNT is really effective since most of their players can handle the multiple positions, kelly can slide down from 5 to 2, harvey from 5 to 3, peek from 5-4, reyes from 1 - 3.
                      TnT players are versatile enough to work their position transition magic in the PBA. In this thread though, we are talking about opposing national selection teams that are on the average about 4 to 5 inches taller, and are used to facing good international players, than the ones TnT players are used to facing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by silverwing View Post
                        I will name a few bigger PG ( 6 and above )

                        Current PBA players who played PG/Combo Guard:

                        Gabe Norwood , Height 6'5"
                        Paul Lee , Height 6'1"
                        Alex Cabagnot, Height 6'0"
                        Cyrus Baguio , Height 6'2"
                        Sol Mercado , Height 6'0"
                        Ryan Reyes , Height 6'2"


                        Some Phil-Foreigner:

                        Chris Banchero. Position: Point Guard, Height: 6-1. Weight: 185.
                        Stanley Pringle. Position: Point Guard, Height: 6-1. Weight: 180.
                        Stephen Holt. Position: Point Guard, Height: 6-3.
                        Stanley Pringle. Position: Point Guard, Height: 6-1. Weight: 180.
                        Jordan Clarkson. Position: Combo Guard, Height: 6-4. Weight: 180.
                        Michael Williams Position: Point Guard, Height: 6-1.


                        Amateur:

                        Rayray parks jr. , Height 6'4", Combo Guard
                        ive been a cabagnot fan even when he was playing for Sta lucia, he is cagey and has the size. But at this point in time we need a younger player to have the continuity needed.Ryan is a point guard in the us but right now he is so injury prone. My choice is still Castro with Chris ross as a young protege( young, extremely athletic,size).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
                          TnT players are versatile enough to work their position transition magic in the PBA. In this thread though, we are talking about opposing national selection teams that are on the average about 4 to 5 inches taller, and are used to facing good international players, than the ones TnT players are used to facing.
                          so who are your boys for our NT?

                          thanks sir
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                          • For those who are interested in the "theoretical" aspects of defense, the tips from sites like http://www.coachesclipboard.net/Playbook.html are useful. I actually used the diagrams to help kids improve their understanding of the game and adjust their team play to their humble capability constraints.

                            Don't go overboard on these tips. In practice, extra-large and super-athletic types will still go through the defense mentioned in the tips as if it were butter. NBA scouts have always known about this and are always looking for the next Godzilla to outHoward Howard. For those old enough to have seen Chamberlain and Shaq in their prime and turning grown, almost seven feet men into wrecks, the greed for monsters is always good.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                              Korek! He's not just confident, he's also cocky. I also would like to be optimistic w/ an "All-PBA nat'l. team", but my mind warns me to have just a "guarded optimism". Regaining Asian basketball supremacy will take more than just having the "best" PBA cagers for the Philippine team. And history will tell us that.

                              Being optimistic & cocky are two different things.

                              yes they are two different things!.......

                              but they they will gain the same result in the end..

                              BASKETBALL SUPREMACY IN ASIA!


                              B E L I E V E!.

                              as my grandpa also told me..

                              SUPORTA MUNA BAGO RESULTA!..

                              kasi yung iba dyan.....
                              RESULTA MUNA BAGO SUPORTA!

                              trans: support the team and youll earn points!. hahahaha!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
                                For those who are interested in the "theoretical" aspects of defense, the tips from sites like http://www.coachesclipboard.net/Playbook.html are useful. I actually used the diagrams to help kids improve their understanding of the game and adjust their team play to their humble capability constraints.

                                Don't go overboard on these tips. In practice, extra-large and super-athletic types will still go through the defense mentioned in the tips as if it were butter. NBA scouts have always known about this and are always looking for the next Godzilla to outHoward Howard. For those old enough to have seen Chamberlain and Shaq in their prime and turning grown, almost seven feet men into wrecks, the greed for monsters is always good.
                                during shaq's prime,

                                no one can out rebound him,
                                no one can outscore him in the post,
                                every one is intimidated to drive against him

                                when was the last time that we have this kind of a center?or if there was , who ?
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