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  • So lets get a different foreign coach , maybe pirate the coach or jordan who has excellent credential or the Japan coach. No offense I dont trust local coaches system especially Chot and Black in international games.
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    • Originally posted by yogaflame View Post
      So lets get a different foreign coach , maybe pirate the coach or jordan who has excellent credential or the Japan coach. No offense I dont trust local coaches system especially Chot and Black in international games.
      who's the best available foreign head coach around?
      Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

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      • ey guys. do you think it would be good for our team to get a multi-titled american coach?
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        • a european or south american coach with lots of FIBA experience is better

          Originally posted by digitalsuperman View Post
          ey guys. do you think it would be good for our team to get a multi-titled american coach?
          =========================================
          Anyone who wants to replace a coach because his dwarf team keeps losing against bigger teams is wishing for a miracle and should get a magician. A more practical solution is to get reinforcements unless one is content to wait a few more years in the hope that the dwarf players will grow wings and fly over their defenders. PBA reinforcements will not guarantee a championship, but it will guarantee close losses which is enough to make me happy.

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          • at this point, this is where i respectfully disagree with sir nardy and some people here in the forum..

            for me, i will not blame anyone for the shortcomings in wuhan.. it is the whole SBP GILAS program that failed period.. it is not only toroman, it is not only eala who is the brainchild.. it is not only the PBA.. it is a collective failure of all stakeholders..

            from the very start i was a skeptical about having a 3 year program consisting of collegiate players from the Philippines and abroad.. i told myself yes this will work to some extent.. what do i mean, i mean these players will develop (and yes they indeed developed as shown in their PBA stints currently) but they will not bring us to the promise land.. they will not bring home the bacon.. and why do i say this.. i say this because it takes mental guts, it takes toughness to win championships and that is where our college dudes will fail.. only professional players will have that ANGAS that toughness to go all the way..

            yes toroman relied basically on douthit and the talents of williams, de ocampo and alapag.. but given certain situations, i would do so as well.. because they have the mental toughness (though the freethrows of williams in the bronze medal game was a bummer) but in general, our kiddos from college will not develop their angas in "invitational tournaments".. i mean why do you think argentina, spain, brazil, france, USA, china, iran bring in their professional players and not amateurs and develop them for 3 years???

            it is a misconception that iran also had the same program as GILAS.. remember, the Iranian players were professionals already unlike our GILAS boys who were collegiate stars.. AND most importantly, they were the best players of Iran unlike the GILAS boys - if you know what i mean..

            so for me the whole program failed and not just the coach, the founder, the management, etc..

            so SBP must brainstorm and really dig deep and find out what really transpired and what can be done with present circumstances.. i still am not confident with our local coaches and i don't care whether it is MVPs money or not.. i still firmly believe that even if MVP is the sole sponsor, he has the right to name whoever he wishes.. yes he has the right because it is his money.. but his right is not necessarily what is righteous..

            i still want an unbiased foreign coach to handle our national team period..

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            • slovenia's coach or brazil's coach..employs the same basketball as toroman.
              Can play at different level and employs intelligent team play.

              pinoy coach employs system that is not good. it is just entertaining and arousing. but its not good for international game. the win is hard earned and losses are massacre/outplayed in nature.
              Darling it's better
              Down where it's wetter
              Take it from me.

              - Sebastian, The Little Mermaid

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              • After golden SEA Games quest, SBP to focus on Gilas II

                After golden SEA Games quest, SBP to focus on Gilas II

                JAKARTA – Done keeping the country's reign in the SEA Games, the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas will now attend to its program for the elite men's team bidding to make the 2014 World Championship.

                Members of the triumphant Sinag Pilipinas here are likely to be the premier candidates for "Gilas II," which will be formed soon and given extensive training for the 2013 FIBA Asia.

                "We didn't talk about Gilas II here as we wanted the players to focus on winning the championship here," said Gilas operations director Butch Antonio.

                "But now that the mission here is done, yes I can say that the SBP already has a plan for Gilas II. These players are likely to make the pool," Antonio added.

                Antonio bared that the SBP leadership has laid down a formula, starting with the formation of a pool of coaches who will be candidates to be the national head coach.

                Among those being considered are Black and PBA coaches Chot Reyes, Ryan Gregorio, Tim Cone and Jong Uichico.


                "Tim Cone and Jong Uichico will be asked if they’re willing to join the program," said Antonio.

                Apparently, Black, Reyes and Gregorio have already been aware of the program with all three working with the teams of SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan.

                Apart from coaching Talk n Text and Meralco, respectively, Reyes and Gregorio have served the Pangilinan-led cage federation as deputies to Serbian coach Rajko Toroman in the last Asian joust.

                Toroman's contract as coach of the national team has expired but will still be invited to be part of the Gilas II program.


                "It's up to him if he wants to be part of the pool," said Antonio.

                Most likely, Toroman would be serving as consultant to a Filipino head coach.

                Black said the young collegiate stars getting the job done here indicated a bright future for Philippine basketball.

                FIBA Asia veteran Chris Tiu and his younger teammates, who trained together for only three weeks, had a dominant showing in the 2011 SEAG, scoring a lopsided win in all their five games.

                "What's amazing about this team is it's a young team. It shows that we have a bright future ahead of us," said Black.

                Most have yet to complete their collegiate playing years and these include seven-foot center Greg Slaughter.

                "He still has one year of collegiate eligibility so may not turn pro yet," said Antonio.

                "We may well have young good talents in the pool. Then there would be the PBA players," Antonio added.

                In 2013, the goal is to make the top three in FIBA Asia to qualify for the 2014 World Championship.
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                • Originally posted by FARIDOON View Post
                  Your assumption really tells us that Philippines really don't need Toroman, many local coaches can do what Toroman did in Wuhan, dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit...
                  I beg your pardon for my oversimplistic view on the situation. I guess either I'm getting too old for this or too much "kiwi bacon has clouded what is left of my myelin sheath to process complex situations. Either way,I believe that you deserve more than an oversimplified view of an old man with greying hair.
                  Dump it down to Douthit and get the hell out of there. Easy stuff that even barangay coaches can employ if they were given the situation and far cheaper as well.
                  Are we that lucky that in a medal game for FIBA asia, a world FIBA qualifying at that, any Tom,dick and Juan de la Cruz could have taken over.
                  But it's not that simple. The team knew how to employ the hedge to offset the picks that frees up the shooters. They knew what tempo to employ that would have been to our advantage and not for the korean shooters. The coach would have rotated his team well to send the best possible match ups for the players on the court.
                  Let's face it- the game was ours for the taking, we defended the shooters well, our shooters were clicking, Marcus was dominating the paint both offensively and defensively. We were winning up until the "big Freeze".
                  We froze at a time that we should have been at our best.
                  Was there a better offensive set/sets that they could have used?
                  Could Japeth have been the game changer?
                  Why did we freeze?

                  Some answers will never be answered at all. But how can we be placed in such an advantageous situation again that the outcome of the game was to be decided by the easiest of ways- unguarded free throws. Or maybe it's not as easy as it sounds.

                  How do we move forward from here? a new coach, a new system, new players.

                  How do we stop another big freeze from happening? a psychologist, new training methods.

                  For me and I know that a lot will disagree. There are too many unknowns in the equation. The solution will be further from happening if we employ a new coach and or system. Hopefully I'm wrong. maybe coach chot is a better mimic than I think he is...

                  I hope I did not disappoint this time around..

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                  • if we get a local coach..no matter who he is..i bet my pwet he'll have more dump the ball plays than toroman..who could blame him? only if our shooters were more consistent.
                    "How small ball works: Tall Skilled beats small skilled every time,but small skilled beats tall stiff every time" - Kevin McHale

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                    • the old school playbook. dump the ball to big man and he'll do the rest.
                      Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

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                      • If you're looking for a system and a coach who suits the Philippine brand of play and is expereinced internationally look at coach Rubén Magnano system (current Brazil coach, and Olympic coach of Argentinas 2004 Gold medal team) his style a combination of players (manu) creativness and multiple flex screens "Princeton's flex screens". Magano however is probably not available. His Argentinan Gold medal team described as the "Golden generation" (Manu, Scola, Nacioni, Oberto, Delfino) is arguably the best passing team in the history of international basketball. I've met some coaches of the Argentina governing body for basketball in the past, discussing how they do things.

                        My other influences and favourite coaches are Tad Baldwin (new Zealand and current Jordan coach) I've heard him speak before and he really is an inspirational guy. In the NBA a admire the Spurs Popovich system. His Philosophy is very smart. Example he never sends a double team from defenders in the corner. (meaning he plays the odds, he rather give up a contested inside shot worth 2 points than free three point shot, makes total sense 40 % from three equates to 60 % which is greater than 50 % (normal FG %). and of course who can forget Ron Jacobs. (as a kid i was amazed with how he would captialised on the rules to his full advantage. e.g. fake injuries to call timeouts in the PBA)

                        As to the debate about Toroman, you know my sentiments, no point reiterating them again. All I can say it's so much easier to judge things as a spectator as compared to being in the thick of the action. Yes Toroman has made mistakes in the most curcial moments , just like all coaches.
                        NBTC- Team New Zealand - Camp David: vision "To provide a basketball Pathway for Filipino Kids in NZ while building men of character and leadership. I can do all things ...
                        https://www.facebook.com/teamNZBasketball/

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                        • We Learned nothing in joining international competitions except to change coaches.

                          Originally posted by yogaflame View Post
                          Patay. I feel its Iran. If he goes back to Iran will be dead, Iran will be back into power. "Hay palakasan," they are lobbying Chot or Possibly Monfort loving Black . We are making the same mistake the Philippines Azkals did, that we replace a coach who just achieve allot for the team. The team who will get Toroman will be very lucky. While we settle for Drama Queen Chot and Ateneo Lover Black.
                          Agree w/ U! I'm one of those who strongly opposes the idea of replacing Rajko Toroman as Nat'l. team head coach. Our basketball leaders have this habit of constantly changing coaches tournament after tournament. I have followed Philippine basketball since 1990 & I know many different coaches handled our Philippine nat'l. team in international tournaments such as the Asian Games & FIBA-Asia Men's Tournament. We went from Robert Jaworski, to Joe Lipa, to Norman Black, to Tembong Melencio, to Tim Cone, to Jong Uichico, to Chot Reyes to Yeng Guiao to Rajko Toroman, in our effort to finding the right coach that would lead us back towards basketball supremacy in asia. But do we realize that perhaps one of the reasons of our failure to put Phl. basketball back to it's lofty placing in Asian basketball might be our habit constantly changing the coach & the lack of continuity of the program?

                          Would you believe that for the last 14 major Asian cage tournaments (Asian Games & FIBA-asia Men's championships) in 20 years, 13 different coaches handled our nat'l. team? Yet, what did this habit of constantly changing coaches bring Phl. basketball? How far did this stupid practice of ours of always changing the coach tournament after tournament bring Phl. basketball? Haven't we learned our lessons all these years of joining international competitions?

                          I strongly believe that our 4th place finish in this year's FIBA-Asia Men's Championships was an indication that Phl. basketball is in the right direction & on it's way towards making a come back as Asia's bests teams. We just need to continue the program, make only "minor" changes & fine-tuning. We need patience & perseverance.

                          But w/ the impending replacement of Toroman as coach, Phl. basketball is once again back from scratch just like it has always been tournament after tournament. The valuable lessons we have learned w/ the Smart Gilas program for the last 3 years would go down the drain, w/ only little to spare.

                          When will we learn our lessons? Maybe a day before "doomsday"! wag naman sana!
                          "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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                          • the problem with the past national team is they have no DOUTHIT... Toroman have Douthit at his disposal!

                            its douthit who give us 4th place...

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                            • Originally posted by geo View Post
                              well, as toroman said, he sticks to what he believe is the right thing to do even though it looks likes he is digging his own grave.... From what I heard from the Pangilinan adjutants, he did dug his own grave
                              I don't think so! It's Philippine basketball's grave that Mr. MVP is digging in replacing Toroman as head coach of Smart Gilas! It won't be of any loss for Toroman if he is axed as Philippine team's head coach. There would be a lot of offers for him, better offers. That's for sure! In fact, it would be a big gain for a certain country that hires Toroman (I hope it's not an Asian country). Our loss would be another's country's gain. What if Iran decides to rehire Toroman to replace Vaselin Matic w/c lead Iran to a dismal 5th place in Wuhan? Iran would slaughter Philippine basketball in the future!

                              I hope I'm wrong!
                              "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by zuma169 View Post
                                at this point, this is where i respectfully disagree with sir nardy and some people here in the forum..

                                for me, i will not blame anyone for the shortcomings in wuhan.. it is the whole SBP GILAS program that failed period.. it is not only toroman, it is not only eala who is the brainchild.. it is not only the PBA.. it is a collective failure of all stakeholders..

                                from the very start i was a skeptical about having a 3 year program consisting of collegiate players from the Philippines and abroad.. i told myself yes this will work to some extent.. what do i mean, i mean these players will develop (and yes they indeed developed as shown in their PBA stints currently) but they will not bring us to the promise land.. they will not bring home the bacon.. and why do i say this.. i say this because it takes mental guts, it takes toughness to win championships and that is where our college dudes will fail.. only professional players will have that ANGAS that toughness to go all the way..

                                yes toroman relied basically on douthit and the talents of williams, de ocampo and alapag.. but given certain situations, i would do so as well.. because they have the mental toughness (though the freethrows of williams in the bronze medal game was a bummer) but in general, our kiddos from college will not develop their angas in "invitational tournaments".. i mean why do you think argentina, spain, brazil, france, USA, china, iran bring in their professional players and not amateurs and develop them for 3 years???

                                it is a misconception that iran also had the same program as GILAS.. remember, the Iranian players were professionals already unlike our GILAS boys who were collegiate stars.. AND most importantly, they were the best players of Iran unlike the GILAS boys - if you know what i mean..

                                so for me the whole program failed and not just the coach, the founder, the management, etc..

                                so SBP must brainstorm and really dig deep and find out what really transpired and what can be done with present circumstances.. i still am not confident with our local coaches and i don't care whether it is MVPs money or not.. i still firmly believe that even if MVP is the sole sponsor, he has the right to name whoever he wishes.. yes he has the right because it is his money.. but his right is not necessarily what is righteous..

                                i still want an unbiased foreign coach to handle our national team period..
                                I am not putting the total blame on Toroman and if you backread on my previous posts I always reiterated that the said FAILURE is due a number of different factors that came the way of the Program in the last three years, some already discussed and some would remain confidential within the organization. I was just sharing my views on the way Toroman actually abandoned his own system during Wuhan itself, that itself is also not totally Coach's fault since we all know the Talk N Text Grand Slam bid was prioritized instead of addressing Gilas Team Chemistry earlier.

                                For me Coach Rajko is a very good coach but his ways I soon realized did not really fit our Filipino culture, its hard to explain as there are things that happened within the team which cannot be said out public. He fitted rightly in Iran whose players are also under the military. And another thing which I also earlier pointed out, MVP has a very high standard with regards to the employees he is paying handsomely, if he gives you your objectives and goal then you must deliver at the appointed time. However If only Toroman is a better communicator and motivator, I have no doubt MVP would have given him a 2nd chance.

                                This goes back to what Noli Eala was harping about after he left his Executive Director position, who should be really in charge of decision making in the National Team, the National Federation or the Sponsor? But still who is the head of both ..... its MVP. Being the Head, he calls the shots. Unfortunately that's the way it is in this way of life of ours.
                                Last edited by nardy; 11-21-2011, 12:34 PM.
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                                Mabuhay ang TEAM PILIPINAS !!!!


                                NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!
                                THE DREAM LIVES ON !!!!

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