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Thread: SBP Long-Term National Pool (Vol. XVI)

  1. #2341
    Senior Member nardy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by insulares View Post
    Let's see what Chito Narvasa and his BCAP cronies say about this.
    actually am wondering why the said group is a bit to quiet as of late, we did not hear from them when Bobby Parks was appointed the Head Coach of San Miguel Beermen in the ABL or when Norman Black became the head coach of the SINAG PILIPINAS National Team. Nobody questioned the appointment of Billy Ray Bates as Assistant Coach/Consultant of the Philippine Patriots.
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  2. #2342
    Senior Member Silent Killer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nardy View Post
    Anyway there is still a chance Coach Rajko might end-up coaching Barangay Ginebra, and that would be something we could look forward to.
    wondering if Mark Caguioa will listen to coach toroman.
    See You In #SPAIN2014

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  3. #2343
    Senior Member Jay P. Mercado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nardy View Post
    actually am wondering why the said group is a bit to quiet as of late, we did not hear from them when Bobby Parks was appointed the Head Coach of San Miguel Beermen in the ABL or when Norman Black became the head coach of the SINAG PILIPINAS National Team. Nobody questioned the appointment of Billy Ray Bates as Assistant Coach/Consultant of the Philippine Patriots.
    My best guess is that the BCAP is in its dormant stage - the organization probably hasn't been meeting regularly and may be rudderless at this point. Chito Narvasa, if I'm not mistaken, is also a practicing legal counsel while Yeng Guiao is busy with his ROS coaching chores. The only guy who can probably stir a hornet's nest would be Alfrancis Chua, although I doubt if he can mobilize the forces without Guiao and Narvasa's help.

    Similarly, I feel that the SBP, through MVP, has found a way to "negotiate" with the BCAP regarding decisions pertaining to the elite basketball program. Otherwise, the BCAP would have been up in arms when Rajko Toroman was appointed head coach of the PHL national team, when his original appointment was merely to be as consultant. We didn't hear anything from Narvasa, et al, we haven't heard anything from them 'til now. Perhaps, the BCAP was included as part of the stakeholders of the SBP, whereby the BCAP will benefit as well from the transfer of technology of the foreign coaches hired to help the national cause.

    The developments at the SMC front have become very interesting indeed. Who would have thought Jong Uichico, arguably the most loyal and longest-staying member of the Cojuangco Group, would pack up and leave for Cojuangco's main corporate rival? Among the present personalities in the SMC stable, only he and SMB team manager Hector Calma were part of the pioneer group. Allan Caidic and Samboy Lim came in only circa '84-'85 while the other pioneers like Derrick Pumaren, Elmer Reyes, Leo Austria have moved on to other fields. Which is why it isn't surprising to hear about the alleged rumor of Rajko Toroman possibly moving to Barangay Ginebra and replacing Siot Tanquincen. Tanquincen, another loyal ally of the Cojuangcos, became so because he's an understudy of Ron Jacobs. With Jacobs sidelined and Danding not running the SMC ship anymore, Ramon Ang obviously wields more political power in the SMC front more than Danding's younger brother, Henry - which is probably the arrangement that Danding wanted.

    Further to this, one begins to think how much of an influence Noli Eala has now in the SMC sports front. Eala is essentially an outsider who blitz-krieged his way into the executive corridors of the conglomerate. He also seems to have the full trust and confidence of Ang. I initially thought Eala would be reporting directly to Robert Non but apparently, I was wrong. Ang may have hired Eala directly and Eala may be his direct report, a setup that Eala would obviously favor and probably sought for during the negotiation stages. I won't even be surprised if Uichico's resignation in the SMC camp may have been partly triggered by Eala's entry. Note that Uichico's demotion from head coach to co-coach of Barangay Ginebra happened when Eala already took over his role as sports head.

    Here's the thing. A few weeks ago, we were all speculating as to how the MVP Group would be able to manage their coaching resources - as to who will handle SMART-Gilas, the two MVP teams in the PBA, and the Ateneo and San Beda collegiate teams. Everything seemed ideal with Chot Reyes and Ryan Gregorio in the PBA, and Black and Lim in the collegiate leagues. They were apparently missing one more guy to handle the SMART-Gilas team with Toroman being left out. The entry of Uichico solves that problem. And if reports are true that apart from being hired as an assistant coach of SMART-Gilas, Uichico will also be a consultant for Meralco, then there's more to the SMART-Gilas offer than meets the eye. Uichico is a fine coach, an exceptional scout, and a bonafide team player who doesn't complain. His strongest strength, having inherited this from Jacobs, is preparation, something no other local coach is better at, even with Tim Cone around. He may not be as good a coach as Yeng Guiao or Chot Reyes when it comes to making adjustments midway into the game but Uichico is a master at preparation. This is a key ingredient for coaches in the international scene.

    I have a gut feel that Uichico, being a coach genuinely liked by players, would eventually be tapped as head coach of SMART-Gilas on a fulltime basis. Uichico would also serve as another conduit for MVP to seek out the players of the rival SMC group. Uichico leaving San Miguel didn't leave any bitter trails, exemplifying the gentleman ways of the genteel coach. So if Uichico would want to tap the services of the likes of Arwind Santos, Alex Cabagnot, Chris Lutz, Jay Washington, James Yap, Marc Pingris, Joe Devance, Mark Caguioa, among others in the future, then his former relationship with the SMC Group would serve him well.

  4. #2344
    Senior Member Alex07's Avatar
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    my gut feel Chot- going to coach Gilas, Norman Black-will stay in Ateneo and Uichico-might be Chot's replacement as TnT headcoach.I might be wrong though.
    "Failing to Prepare is Preparing to Fail"

  5. #2345
    Senior Member nardy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex07 View Post
    my gut feel Chot- going to coach Gilas, Norman Black-will stay in Ateneo and Uichico-might be Chot's replacement as TnT headcoach.I might be wrong though.
    Quinito Henson @TheDeanQuinito
    aside from assnt coach job with gilas, jong uichico has agreed to be consultant for meralco PBA team in 3-year contract, sed its career move
    11:30 AM - 14 Jan 12 via web

    We'll soon see if the way Talk N Text finish this conference would affect MVP's decision regarding the new Head Coach of Gilas 2.0. For me I feel it does not matter if TNT becomes the Champion or not but on how Chot handles the situation.
    Last edited by nardy; 01-14-2012 at 03:28 PM.
    LABAN KUNG LABAN! KAYA NATIN PILIPINAS!
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  6. #2346
    Senior Member Jay P. Mercado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nardy View Post
    Quinito Henson @TheDeanQuinito
    aside from assnt coach job with gilas, jong uichico has agreed to be consultant for meralco PBA team in 3-year contract, sed its career move
    11:30 AM - 14 Jan 12 via web

    We'll soon see if the way Talk N Text finish this conference would affect MVP's decision regarding the new Head Coach of Gilas 2.0. For me I feel it does not matter if TNT becomes the Champion or not but on how Chot handles the situation.
    Nardy, what did you mean by "Chot handling the situation?" Were you referring to Chot's handling TNT at present in their battle against Petron and to the conclusion of the 1st Conference, or if he's truly capable of handling the national team, not in terms of technical know-how (which we all know he may be the most qualified local coach today) but in terms of how he handles his players?

    I don't know, Chot has somehow rubbed me off the wrong way for the past couple of seasons already. Back in 2005, I really thought Reyes was the right guy for the job as head coach of the national team. For one, he was the one who got to study the international game more than anyone else, an educational trip to Argentina being the coup de grace. Secondly, he had all the time in the world to learn about the international game since he wasn't actively involved in any direct capacity with any PBA team. Third, he was taken in by the SMC Group as head coach of San Miguel Beer, ousting Jong Uichico at his post, simply because he was the fair-haired boy back then and that SMC was the lead sponsor for the national team. To take out Uichico from San Miguel Beer was almost unimaginable, but Reyes was able to negotiate this, forcing a realignment that led to Uichico handling Barangay Ginebra and demoting Siot Tanquincen who gave the Gin Kings two titles in 2004-05.

    But then, after winning the first two conferences of last season, Reyes seemed to go spiral from there. He lost his cool against his players, to the point of blaming them (including his import) for their debacle, and losing out in a PR war against Ato Agustin. I felt Reyes lost more with his integrity as a coach from all these compared to losing the conference and the Slam.

    And now, after a great start, TNT is struggling to keep its head above water, down 2-3 against Petron in their semifinals series. And this series also has its share of Reyes' controversies. He blames Ryan Reyes for not following instructions, he slammed the playboard twice in front of his players in a fit of rage, he suddenly reveals that Kelly Williams should not have been playing since Game 1 because of a hamstring injury, etc. Utter lack of accountability, in my opinion.

    Assuming MVP is following the situation closely, you and me would think if Reyes is indeed the ideal coach to handle a national team made up of possibly 12 professional superstar players, or a mixture of pros and topnotch amateurs. Either way, one begins to wonder if Reyes' emotions can be kept in check while at the same time making sure that his players won't lose confidence playing for a man who regularly blames everyone except himself for their losses. Uichico, on the other hand, is the antithesis of Reyes. He's mild-mannered, cool, and keeps everything in check. He rationalizes things, accepts loses but prepares for the succeeding games, and keeps a positive attitude all throughout. Plus the fact that difficult superstars like Danny Seigle, Rudy Hatfield, Eric Menk, Mark Caguioa, JJ Helterbrand, Danny Ildefonso, Dondon Hontiveros, etc. have the highest respect for the guy. Hatfield was particularly difficult to deal with during the 2007-08 season after coming back from a long hiatus in Michigan. But Uichico was able to deal with his eccentricities and made him the kind of player that we all know. Ditto with DS back in his superstar years of 1999 to 2002 and Eric Menk in 2007 onwards. Mark Caguioa recently came out with his frustrations, stating that Ginebra today wasn't the same as the one in the past, obviously showing his frustration with Siot Tanquincen's system. Caguioa seemed to be happier with Uichico's coaching, even if the latter's style was more deliberate compared to Tanquincen - when Caguioa's game is founded on run-and-gun and playing with reckless abandon.

    The upside for MVP here is that he's now blessed with three legitimate coaches in his stable to run the national team. These are Reyes, Uichico and Norman Black. I really can't imagine Black being removed from Ateneo after so much success with the Blue Eagles. Changing the guard now might not do well for Ateneo. Which would mean that I don't see Black being elevated to head coaching in the PBA since I can't imagine Ateneo doing as well without Black around. Black has proven that he's several tiers above his colleagues in the UAAP. It's also noticeable that the parents of topnotch HS players would want their sons to play for Black to further learn from him. There'd be some latitude for Ryan Gregorio, as his family connections are well-established in the MVP Group. Similarly, Meralco is still a relatively new team and Gregorio can argue that he doesn't have the same artillery that sister team TNT has. He will remain with Meralco at least up to the end of the season, regardless of how they'll do. But he'll also be with the national team as an assistant.

    Which leaves Reyes and Uichico. Reyes is actually doing very well with TNT, having won 2 of the last 3 PBA titles. He's struggling now but it wouldn't be fair to say that he's not doing well. To get him out of TNT, have him replaced by Black, and have someone replace Black at Ateneo would be rocking the MVP ship too much. The hiring of Uichico should resolve this dilemma, as Uichico can simply take the place of Rajko Toroman and have Reyes, Black and Gregorio at his call anytime.

  7. #2347
    Senior Member nardy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay P. Mercado View Post
    Nardy, what did you mean by "Chot handling the situation?" Were you referring to Chot's handling TNT at present in their battle against Petron and to the conclusion of the 1st Conference, or if he's truly capable of handling the national team, not in terms of technical know-how (which we all know he may be the most qualified local coach today) but in terms of how he handles his players?

    I don't know, Chot has somehow rubbed me off the wrong way for the past couple of seasons already. Back in 2005, I really thought Reyes was the right guy for the job as head coach of the national team. For one, he was the one who got to study the international game more than anyone else, an educational trip to Argentina being the coup de grace. Secondly, he had all the time in the world to learn about the international game since he wasn't actively involved in any direct capacity with any PBA team. Third, he was taken in by the SMC Group as head coach of San Miguel Beer, ousting Jong Uichico at his post, simply because he was the fair-haired boy back then and that SMC was the lead sponsor for the national team. To take out Uichico from San Miguel Beer was almost unimaginable, but Reyes was able to negotiate this, forcing a realignment that led to Uichico handling Barangay Ginebra and demoting Siot Tanquincen who gave the Gin Kings two titles in 2004-05.

    But then, after winning the first two conferences of last season, Reyes seemed to go spiral from there. He lost his cool against his players, to the point of blaming them (including his import) for their debacle, and losing out in a PR war against Ato Agustin. I felt Reyes lost more with his integrity as a coach from all these compared to losing the conference and the Slam.

    And now, after a great start, TNT is struggling to keep its head above water, down 2-3 against Petron in their semifinals series. And this series also has its share of Reyes' controversies. He blames Ryan Reyes for not following instructions, he slammed the playboard twice in front of his players in a fit of rage, he suddenly reveals that Kelly Williams should not have been playing since Game 1 because of a hamstring injury, etc. Utter lack of accountability, in my opinion.

    Assuming MVP is following the situation closely, you and me would think if Reyes is indeed the ideal coach to handle a national team made up of possibly 12 professional superstar players, or a mixture of pros and topnotch amateurs. Either way, one begins to wonder if Reyes' emotions can be kept in check while at the same time making sure that his players won't lose confidence playing for a man who regularly blames everyone except himself for their losses. Uichico, on the other hand, is the antithesis of Reyes. He's mild-mannered, cool, and keeps everything in check. He rationalizes things, accepts loses but prepares for the succeeding games, and keeps a positive attitude all throughout. Plus the fact that difficult superstars like Danny Seigle, Rudy Hatfield, Eric Menk, Mark Caguioa, JJ Helterbrand, Danny Ildefonso, Dondon Hontiveros, etc. have the highest respect for the guy. Hatfield was particularly difficult to deal with during the 2007-08 season after coming back from a long hiatus in Michigan. But Uichico was able to deal with his eccentricities and made him the kind of player that we all know. Ditto with DS back in his superstar years of 1999 to 2002 and Eric Menk in 2007 onwards. Mark Caguioa recently came out with his frustrations, stating that Ginebra today wasn't the same as the one in the past, obviously showing his frustration with Siot Tanquincen's system. Caguioa seemed to be happier with Uichico's coaching, even if the latter's style was more deliberate compared to Tanquincen - when Caguioa's game is founded on run-and-gun and playing with reckless abandon.

    The upside for MVP here is that he's now blessed with three legitimate coaches in his stable to run the national team. These are Reyes, Uichico and Norman Black. I really can't imagine Black being removed from Ateneo after so much success with the Blue Eagles. Changing the guard now might not do well for Ateneo. Which would mean that I don't see Black being elevated to head coaching in the PBA since I can't imagine Ateneo doing as well without Black around. Black has proven that he's several tiers above his colleagues in the UAAP. It's also noticeable that the parents of topnotch HS players would want their sons to play for Black to further learn from him. There'd be some latitude for Ryan Gregorio, as his family connections are well-established in the MVP Group. Similarly, Meralco is still a relatively new team and Gregorio can argue that he doesn't have the same artillery that sister team TNT has. He will remain with Meralco at least up to the end of the season, regardless of how they'll do. But he'll also be with the national team as an assistant.

    Which leaves Reyes and Uichico. Reyes is actually doing very well with TNT, having won 2 of the last 3 PBA titles. He's struggling now but it wouldn't be fair to say that he's not doing well. To get him out of TNT, have him replaced by Black, and have someone replace Black at Ateneo would be rocking the MVP ship too much. The hiring of Uichico should resolve this dilemma, as Uichico can simply take the place of Rajko Toroman and have Reyes, Black and Gregorio at his call anytime.
    the way Chot is passing the blame on his players instead of taking command of responsibility which I feel MVP would not fail to hear or notice.

    The way I feel is that we need a coach who the players could respond well, who the players feel is there to support them all the way and in return they are willing to die for. Our teams have been falling short and we really need a big boost from somewhere, for me its still the players who would dictate how far we'll go no matter who is the coach. We could still continue the good things that were used by Coach Rajko even if he's no longer the one in charge.

    We know the kind of opposition we'll be facing, we also know the different shortcomings of our past national teams .... its time we form a team that could address our past mistakes and be more than competitive with our rivals. Its time we junk the old process of choosing players wherein we consider heavily on one's popularity but really form the Team that could really accomplish the goal.
    LABAN KUNG LABAN! KAYA NATIN PILIPINAS!
    Mabuhay ang TEAM PILIPINAS !!!!


    NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!
    THE DREAM LIVES ON !!!!


  8. #2348
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
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    I think the most prudent desicion is to have Uicico as NT coach in the meantime at least up to Sept 2012. Chot and Black are still heavily commited with TNT and Ateneo, it would'nt be fair for both progammes to have a coach who has other matters to think of. it is neither a good idea to change coaches in "mid season". In addition Uichico has full attention of the NT. This early the NT needs a full time coach. And Uichico is the only one realistically avaialble , What happens after Sept 2012. is MVP's call

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    I think the most prudent desicion is to have Uicico as NT coach in the meantime at least up to Sept 2012. Chot and Black are still heavily commited with TNT and Ateneo, it would'nt be fair for both progammes to have a coach who has other matters to think of. it is neither a good idea to change coaches in "mid season". In addition Uichico has full attention of the NT. This early the NT needs a full time coach. And Uichico is the only one realistically avaialble , What happens after Sept 2012. is MVP's call
    goodbye Chot might also mean goodbye Javale Mcghee
    "Failing to Prepare is Preparing to Fail"

  10. #2350
    Senior Member silverwing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex07 View Post
    goodbye Chot might also mean goodbye Javale Mcghee
    If i were MVP, if Chot will make Javale Mcghee as an edge, i would just simply replied "No Mcghee No TnT"

  11. #2351
    Senior Member tito thoots's Avatar
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    So the Circus has started. After Toro has been ousted, the race is open to local grandstanding, maneuverings, below the belt dealings etc. Who ends up on top will be the next top clown. este coach

    Sorry for the sarcasm. Been out too long under the Brisbane sun. Hard to start anew but have to do what needs to be done.

  12. #2352
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    ull see......

    CHOT to coach SMARTGILAS2!....

    while JONG will coach TNT!...

  13. #2353

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    Sir nardy,

    Final n talaga ung ke coach T?
    I hope MVP can still change his mind because it will be better I think if we can continue coach T contract within 2 years with hindsight of developing a future filipino replacement if that's what MVP would like
    suggestion Jong with his demeanor players will eventually respect him

  14. #2354
    Senior Member nardy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caputrukahs16 View Post
    Sir nardy, Final n talaga ung ke coach T? I hope MVP can still change his mind because it will be better I think if we can continue coach T contract within 2 years with hindsight of developing a future filipino replacement if that's what MVP would like suggestion Jong with his demeanor players will eventually respect him
    that's one of the failures of Coach Rajko .... Development. He did not really train an understudy even though he had a lot of Assistants. He did not accomplish the task of Long-term Development Project Director which he was originally contracted to do as he was so concentrated in making SMART GILAS a winning team even if Phenoms Kiefer Ravena, Ray Parks, etc were being given to him, he seems to have no time or patience on honing the future of our basketball. The original vision was that he was supposed to develop a pool of players for international competition, however all of a sudden he made a 360 turn and instead sought PBA Reinforcements as immediate success was prioritized by Toroman over development. But still he fallen short despite the PBA patch-up job.

    If you remember Eric Altamirano, Louie Alas and Binky Favis were supposed to be his understudies but Coach Rajko was not open to the idea. Toroman from the start does not want assistants as he said he could best accomplish things by his lonesome. However volunteer Assistant Coaches Allan Gregorio, Jude Roque and Djalma Arnedo was installed on the insistence of management. Oliver Bunyi was later added after the trip in Serbia had people asking how can Coaches with heights of below 6 feet can be a Big Man Coach. MVP insisted Chot Reyes and Ryan Gregorio to be part of the coaching staff to assist Coach Rajko. Later on Charles Tiu was accomodated as per request of Toroman.

    On-game Adjustment is also not the strength of Toroman, he could not make changes to counter an opposition who had well scouted his play patterns and tendencies. He would stubbornly stick on something which worked previously even though at present time its not working. He is not prepared for changes.
    Last edited by nardy; 01-15-2012 at 04:13 PM.
    LABAN KUNG LABAN! KAYA NATIN PILIPINAS!
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  15. #2355
    Senior Member tito thoots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAIN-OR-SHINE View Post
    ---
    I was referring to the topic of SBP coaching. Let's not get waylaid off the topic just because of jealousy "Thony". I'm over it. Hopefully you will be too. This is the only way you can move on in life. You jut have to accept that sometimes there are people born to play the game despite the obvious physical attributes or lack thereoff. Sure he will beat your team over and over again despite your preparations but that does not mean you prepared less. I hope you can move on because it's just pathetic that even in your holidays back home you are still haunted by the enigma that you have witnessed 6 months ago. He is a very good boy please don't hate on him.
    On topic, the race for the next coaching position is going to be very interesting. What is more interesting is how they are marketing themselves.
    Last edited by TrueBluePinoy; 01-16-2012 at 12:27 AM.

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    Senior Member rocketstar47's Avatar
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    i hate to see CHOT as the coach of our NT
    there are lot of coaches better than him
    id like tim cone to be our coach
    his the last coach of the RP Team that brought
    a medal in international competiton

    REMEMBER
    1998 Asian Games Tim Cone - 3RD PLACE
    2002 Asian Games Jong Uichico - 4TH PLACE
    2007 FIBA ASIA Chot Reyes 9TH PLACE
    2009 FIBA ASIA Yeng Guiao 8TH PLACE
    2010 ASIAN GAMES Rajko Toroman 6th PLACE
    2011 FIBA ASIA Rajko Toroman 4TH PLACE

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    Quote Originally Posted by caputrukahs16 View Post
    Sir nardy,

    Final n talaga ung ke coach T?
    I hope MVP can still change his mind because it will be better I think if we can continue coach T contract within 2 years with hindsight of developing a future filipino replacement if that's what MVP would like
    suggestion Jong with his demeanor players will eventually respect him
    Good as done unless umaasa ka pa
    If there is no basketball in heaven, i am NOT going.

    SMALLBALL, bitches..

  18. #2358
    Senior Member manu_bol's Avatar
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    south american basketball is the new euro ball.

    get someone from argentina to coach the NT.
    smart gilas 1.0:
    98-75-3
    smart gilas 2.0:
    35-12-1
    smart gilas 2014:
    6-1-0

  19. #2359
    Senior Member weward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manu_bol View Post
    south american basketball is the new euro ball.

    get someone from argentina to coach the NT.
    if its possible, the coach of brazil !

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    Quote Originally Posted by nardy View Post
    the way Chot is passing the blame on his players instead of taking command of responsibility which I feel MVP would not fail to hear or notice.

    The way I feel is that we need a coach who the players could respond well, who the players feel is there to support them all the way and in return they are willing to die for. Our teams have been falling short and we really need a big boost from somewhere, for me its still the players who would dictate how far we'll go no matter who is the coach. We could still continue the good things that were used by Coach Rajko even if he's no longer the one in charge.

    We know the kind of opposition we'll be facing, we also know the different shortcomings of our past national teams .... its time we form a team that could address our past mistakes and be more than competitive with our rivals. Its time we junk the old process of choosing players wherein we consider heavily on one's popularity but really form the Team that could really accomplish the goal.
    "its time we form a team that could address our past mistakes and be more than competitive with our rivals."

    talking about our "past mistakes", one of them is our imprudent habit of constantly changing the national team head coach tournament after tournament. And we keep repeating such mistake again & again as if we will never learn our lessons.

    Having a new head coach in every FIBA-asia tournament means new system, new set of players for the nat'l. team (each coach has his own "taste" of players as far as basis of selection is concerned), another adjustment period. In short always starting from scratch again & again. Is there "continuity" after all? That's why Philippine basketball could hardly take off. Instead, we remain stagnant by repeating the same mistakes over & over again.

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