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Tournament Debriefing: GREECE

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  • #31
    Originally posted by chrisfiss View Post
    man i hate the greek media, we won a medal and it seems like nothing happened. oh actually sth did happen, zagorakis threatens to resign and oly prepares for the game against aek. yes these news are more important...
    ..and i just checked the newspapers...just a small reference to basketball...whatever...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVlty4FsZo&
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5PCpxV2Imw

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by obe31 View Post
      Hahahaha! lol ! lol!

      Greek NT debriefing

      Greece got bronze due to:

      1) Luck
      2) Refs
      3) Greek loby
      4) The unamed one
      5) Psicocology
      6) MIFS
      7) Did i mention greek loby? well Greek loby

      It was supposed to be MIGS...
      Originally posted by ozziem
      You really know basket well...
      Thanks ozziem.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mysh View Post
        It was supposed to be MIGS...
        No, MILFS!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by chrisfiss View Post
          ..and i just checked the newspapers...just a small reference to basketball...whatever...
          Our media are sleeping. People love basketball.
          Originally posted by ozziem
          You really know basket well...
          Thanks ozziem.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sin Borisko View Post
            No, MILFS!
            ROFL! That one too!
            Originally posted by ozziem
            You really know basket well...
            Thanks ozziem.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sin Borisko View Post
              No, MILFS!
              well done sir!

              Originally posted by Mysh View Post
              Our media are sleeping. People love basketball.
              or maybe we are.. I bet more watched Oly-Paok than the final.
              "The worst part is wondering how you’ll find the strength tomorrow to go on doing what you did today and have been doing for much too long,where you’ll find the strength for all that stupid running around,those attempts to escape from crushing necessity,which always founder and serve only to convince you one more time that destiny is implacable,that every night will find you down and out,crushed by the dread of more and more sordid and insecure tomorrows.~Céline

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Fedfan View Post
                well done sir!


                Thank you,ma'am!

                Comment


                • #38
                  I agree with giangdade that Zisis was a disappointment. He just does not have any leadership or self-confidence. Made his shots when no one cared, disappeared or disappointed when he was needed.
                  Another disappointment IMO was Perperoglu, who could not show that he was a better choice than Pelekanos or Vassilopolous. His moves lacked any focus and self-confidence, kept turning the ball over.
                  Boroussis seemed to lack motivation after being benched in the third group game. Would have expected more from him, discussed way too much with the referees.
                  Fotsis played a good Eurobasket, altough his shot wasn't falling he showed good rebounding and good defense. Calathes showed quite some potential. Was a better playmaker vs France than Spanoulis and during the first group stage showed some nice passes in pick and roll situations.
                  All in all, Greece showed the same style of play and had the same problems as in the last two years. The offense was too repetitive and lacked creativity.
                  "It's not about four guys working to get one player open and give the ball to him."- Ettore Messina

                  Sanchez, Ginobili, Basile, Kukoc, Sabonis

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    If you guys check the stats, Greece did amazingly well.

                    The only categories where we fall apart are 3pt shoots (%), assists and turnovers. We need a better playmaker (assists and TOs) and better 3pt shooters. The stats also show we have great potential and tallent (offense, defence, steals and rebounds), but we are still quite inexperienced (TOs).

                    So, the stats are:
                    • 1st at earning fouls with 32.8 average per game - how else can they stop Sofo?
                    • 8th at committing fouls with 20,9 average!
                      Pretty good there. The only top4 team which did better than Greece was Spain with 18,7 average. Germany, Serbia and Croatia did the most.
                    • 2nd best at scoring with 75,9 average
                      Damn good, especially if you consider how bad we are at TOs and how poor in assists. Spain was first here with 79,8 average points per game.
                    • 5th at points allowed with 69,9.
                      Greece defends well. Being 5th in defence, while you are 3rd at TOs is a miracle, considering how many easy points we gifted to our opponents.
                    • 4th at 1pt shoots (71,5%)
                    • 3rd at 2pt shoots (53,0%)
                    • 10th at 3pt shoots (32,8%)
                    • 2nd at defensive rebounds with 25.8 average
                    • 2nd at offensive rebounds with 11.4 average
                    • 1st at total rebounds with 37.2
                    • 9th at assists with 12.8
                      This is due to the lack of a classic PG in our squad. First was Spain with 17.3! Serbia and France were 3rd and 4th. Greece needs to find more easy shoots.
                    • 2nd at steals with 7.7 average
                    • 3rd at turnovers with 14.2 average
                      Again the lack of a classic PG! The other two teams, which topped Greece were Lithuania and Germany. Slovenia did the least turnovers. It's a shame for a top4 team to do so many miskates. We are only killing ourselves!
                    • 9th at blocking with 2.2 average.
                      We are average here, the only good blockers we have are Koufos and Fotsis. We don't have a classic blocker, but blocking is not so important in basketball. It's good for the fans though. So, nothing really alarming here.


                    To conclude Greece excels in things like offense, defence, rebounds and steals. At the same time, we commit many mistakes (3rd) and appear to be poor in assists (9th), while we shoot poorly behind the arc (10th)!

                    Fixing these three would be the key to success for our next tourney.
                    Last edited by Mysh; 09-21-2009, 01:46 PM.
                    Originally posted by ozziem
                    You really know basket well...
                    Thanks ozziem.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by nfo View Post
                      pelekanos better than zisis and perperoglou ?

                      i believe that you r all very hard on zisis, perperoglou and spanoulis

                      As you propably have noticed in every single offence of the greek NT the ball passed through v-span at least once
                      Additionally v-span was the target of all teams in defence and played >37 minutes while both covering PG position and leading score in every game.
                      He must feel exhausted and i believe this might reflect on his PAO games this season.

                      Zisis has spent 2 years in CSKA without much of playing time. I agree that this tournament was his great opportunity to step up and he didn't.

                      As far as Perperoglou, he is improving every year under Obradovic and I expect from him to be better next year (don't forget where he was playing not many years ago). It is clear though that he is not "leader" material.

                      BIG SOFO: what can a man say about this wonder of nature. Let's hope this year won't be like 2006-07 after a promising WC. I must add though that his uncontrolled power should not be so hard called by the refs.
                      Every touch is not a foul. It's not his fault that every other player than Shaq is too "soft" for him
                      Don't forget the spaniards who were falling down "only touched by the air" coming when SOFO was just moving

                      Pappas and Papanikolaou should enter gradually in the NT in order to cover the time gap among generations along with Calathes and Koufos.

                      Last but not least don't everyone overlook the effect of the absence of 2 of the world's best PGs Papaloukas and 3D

                      With those 2 in good shape, Spanoulis and a BIG SOFO coming from a full season the greek NT has nothing to be afraid of next summer in Turkey
                      Spanoulis was the second best player in the tournament. Just ignore these "Greek fans" comments on him. They are clearly personally biased and have some sort of personal agenda against him.

                      As for Pelekanos-Zisis-Perperoglou. Absolutely Pelekanos is much better than them. I believe he was not invited to the team because Kazlauskas does not know him. And as far as not playing in Olympiacos, well see Teodosic for exhibit A on the greatness of Giannakis to evaluate his players.

                      Basically, I expect a huge year from Pelekanos at Maroussi if he stays healthy and Kazlauskas will see his value. And unlike Giannakis I believe he would play him on the team instead of just bench him. Pelekanos is a really great player he's just never gotten a good chance with the right team and coach. He was playing in small clubs like Peristeri or he was getting benched by coaches that have strange ideas about players in Real and in Olympiacos.

                      But I do believe he will finally get a good chance at Maroussi and also he will play in the Euroleague or Eurocup and he should certainly be the star of that team. He is the exact kind of player that a coach like Kazluaskas could use. Yes, I think he is way better than Zisis and Perperoglou to be honest about it. Although to be fair Zisis is better than Greeks say. He is a very skilled and smart player and his fundamentals are excellent. It's just that he developed into a player that has no position. He is not a combo guard, not really a point guard, and although he plays as a pure shooting guard and his skills are of a true shooting guard - and although he has a pure shot, sweet stroke and unlimited range, he has the most inconsistent jump shot ever. I would guess that what happened to him was the Messina simply ruined him by destroying his confidence. That's what happens if you choose to play for Messina. You either become much better or your confidence is destroyed.

                      Greece needs a dynamic swingman badly and definitely Pelekanos could fill that role.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        the result (3rd place) is obviously good, no queston about that.
                        Starting the tournament we were the second favourite and I stil believe we could have gotten 2nd place had we not been matched with the first favourite in the semis.

                        Other than that, speaking objectively, this tourney (only THIS because of the rosters) was very balanced if you take out Spain. I mean, I see Greece, Slovenia, Serbia, Turkey all within 5% difference in power from each other. France and Croatia, Russia within 10% from the aforementioned ones. So any combination of those teams could have filled the top4 after Spain. The fact that we ended up third, seems good, as even though we could have finished 2nd, we could just as easily lost the quarter final and finished...5-6th.

                        I am only disatisfied by the fact that we didnt have all our weapons to finally see a great semi against Spain in neutral territory with better refereeing. If we had a full roster I believe they would stil have the advantage, but the game would be much closer and agonizing til the end....and with slight overperforming on our part we could have even won. Unfortunately this eurobasket didn't offer me such an experience in any game. Many close games, sure....we beat turkey in OT and slovenia by 1point, but that means nothing when you see both teams performing badly. There was no truely epic game like the semi in Spain...despite other factors there, so despite the bronze medal this eurobasket won't be much memorable to me...already looking forward to the world championship...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          well i respect your opinion, but sorry i did not like the coaching of the team.

                          very bad rotation of the team to the all tournament.

                          it took klaza 15min to see that vs spain we had problem with spanoulis as PG!!!
                          he did not use kalampokis, and kaimakoglou to try to change and control the rhythm of the game. i am not a coach, i am a fan (surely klaza knows much much more than me) but i was not satisfied.

                          also i believe that greek team has good opportunities for 2010 even for a medal, but they have to focus a little more for possible games against spaniards. it is embarrassing for players like papaloukas, and zisis, and diamadidis and many others good players to lose from spanish for 6 times! nobody likes to lose especially when you are a top player. so they must be prepared as much as possible for them.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by FIBA Europe Basket View Post

                            As for Pelekanos-Zisis-Perperoglou. Absolutely Pelekanos is much better than them. I believe he was not invited to the team because Kazlauskas does not know him.

                            Basically, I expect a huge year from Pelekanos at Maroussi if he stays healthy and Kazlauskas will see his value. And unlike Giannakis I believe he would play him on the team instead of just bench him. Pelekanos is a really great player he's just never gotten a good chance with the right team and coach.

                            But I do believe he will finally get a good chance at Maroussi and also he will play in the Euroleague or Eurocup and he should certainly be the star of that team. He is the exact kind of player that a coach like Kazluaskas could use. Yes, I think he is way better than Zisis and Perperoglou to be honest about it.

                            Greece needs a dynamic swingman badly and definitely Pelekanos could fill that role.
                            All the above are very clear when i recall his 2 years' performance in Real an Olympiakos

                            Come on, he is player for small clubs and can't step up when level of competition rises up

                            As far Spanoulis i agree. He is not Dirk guys to win Spain by himself. He needs 3D and Papaloukas along with him so as to focus only in scoring and not carrying the ball so much time

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Skatoulis: the stupid confirmed to be a retarded guy. Despite the great performance against Turkey, he has shown he can't be a leader, he can't be a point-guard (pg has to use the brain, Skatty is brainless) and he can't be a shooting-guard too: he needs the full court to play, and he needs the ball in his hands. It means he's not a SG, it means he's a streetballer. Rucker Park Tournament happens in summer, it should be his perfect dimension. Away from the NT, even if he could be useful for 5-10 minutes in some games, to break it. Playing 11 or more minutes, he simply breaks balls.

                              Zisis: good defence, smart player, but he's far from the wonderful Zizzo who played in AEK or Benetton. Hoping that a day Varejao will end his career with a serious injury, let's also Hope that the perfect system of Siena could help him. The Chianti Mafia allows everything to Montepaschi, so he should not be scared anymore. At least in the Italian league.

                              Calathes: first time he plays at senior level. Unfortunately he had to watch Skatoulis from the bench but when he has been able to play, he has shown good skills and - most of all - interesting brain. What a pity he'll be 15th man at Pana...

                              Kalampokis: honest player, who was in Poland for the absences of Diamantidis, Papaloukas and probably Papamakarios. It would be unfair to destroy him. This is simply not his level but he made his best.

                              Perperoglou: when you play with Diamantidis, Jasikevicius, Pekovic, Batiste, if you're a true crap no-one see it. You can have space, because opponents will guard your team mates. If you're considered one of the most important player of the team, the truth appears. The worst SF that Greece had in the last 10 years. Yes, including Papanikolaou (Dimitris).

                              Printezis: pure European material. Excellent, he will become an important cornerman. Or better, he's already an important cornerman.

                              Fotsis: he has become a mature player, the role of captain probably has been useful for him. He has grabbed rebounds and scored points, playing farer from the basket than the last years. Since he's only 28, he has at least two international competititons to play in the future. And he has to be in.

                              Kaimakoglou: few minutes, after his best season. Let's see if he will improve and he will deserve again a spot with the NT.

                              Koufos: the biggest mistake of Kazlauskas, because even if he is not a pittbul, he has fantastic skills and a pure talent, that's something missing in the other players. When you've a player who can score 15 points every evening, he has to play.

                              Mpourousis: a day he was good, the day after he was a ghost. I don't see anything different from the Oly's Mpourousis. Let's accept him, or should we look for another player? Since Mpourousis is really dominating when he is "in", I would put him in the national team for ever.

                              Shortsanitis: he can be as dominating as Shaquille O'Neal, but he's main problem is always the brain. We'll he remain in a good shape or will he collapse becoming again a Jabba the Hutt? Probably he should be adopted by Kazlauskas, since he's the first coach with whom he has a decent behaviour.
                              Of course, this Shortanitis has to play with the NT till the World Cup 2018, when he'll be 33...

                              Glyniadakis: 3rd center, a true pro. This is his perfect role, if the NT will need three centers in the future, everyone knows his telephone number.

                              About the future, it's clear that Greece is missing a shooting guard, but probably no-one cares about it, because even when Diamantopoulos or Lliadellis scored 30 points in the Greek league, they weren't even called by Petropoulos or Ioannidis or Giannakis. But someone is needed in this role: Pappas? Let's watch his season with Kolossos. Mpramos? Let's see how he will understand the European basketball.

                              I hope not to see anymore Spanoulis playing 35 minutes (I can accept him playing 5, maximum 10): if he doesn't accept it, there are Sloukas and Pappas waiting for their turn. I also hope Perperoglou to spend long long summers sitting on his armchair. Papanikolaou and Jankovic are the future.
                              Γυμναστικός Σύλλογος Περιστερίου

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by FIBA Europe Basket View Post
                                Spanoulis was the second best player in the tournament. Just ignore these "Greek fans" comments on him. They are clearly personally biased and have some sort of personal agenda against him.

                                As for Pelekanos-Zisis-Perperoglou. Absolutely Pelekanos is much better than them. I believe he was not invited to the team because Kazlauskas does not know him. And as far as not playing in Olympiacos, well see Teodosic for exhibit A on the greatness of Giannakis to evaluate his players.

                                Basically, I expect a huge year from Pelekanos at Maroussi if he stays healthy and Kazlauskas will see his value. And unlike Giannakis I believe he would play him on the team instead of just bench him. Pelekanos is a really great player he's just never gotten a good chance with the right team and coach. He was playing in small clubs like Peristeri or he was getting benched by coaches that have strange ideas about players in Real and in Olympiacos.

                                But I do believe he will finally get a good chance at Maroussi and also he will play in the Euroleague or Eurocup and he should certainly be the star of that team. He is the exact kind of player that a coach like Kazluaskas could use. Yes, I think he is way better than Zisis and Perperoglou to be honest about it. Although to be fair Zisis is better than Greeks say. He is a very skilled and smart player and his fundamentals are excellent. It's just that he developed into a player that has no position. He is not a combo guard, not really a point guard, and although he plays as a pure shooting guard and his skills are of a true shooting guard - and although he has a pure shot, sweet stroke and unlimited range, he has the most inconsistent jump shot ever. I would guess that what happened to him was the Messina simply ruined him by destroying his confidence. That's what happens if you choose to play for Messina. You either become much better or your confidence is destroyed.

                                Greece needs a dynamic swingman badly and definitely Pelekanos could fill that role.
                                Pelekanos is better on defence, but doesn't have the shoot Greece needs. If you look at the stats I posted, you will understand we need some good shooters.

                                Pelekanos though, is very good and I am not saying ignore him.

                                As for Spanoulis, I think he was our best man. Without him, we wouldn't have been here. No other player had to do so many things in the court, as V-Span had, and from no other player had we so many expectations... His only weakness is his passing in my opinion.

                                As for Sofo, he was our second best player. Well done on him for fixing his FTs! He is almost our best man now. I am not saying the best, because he lacks some stamina. He can't play long and that's his main weak point now.
                                Last edited by Mysh; 09-21-2009, 05:16 PM.
                                Originally posted by ozziem
                                You really know basket well...
                                Thanks ozziem.

                                Comment

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