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LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 06:22 PM
Now here is why...

There should be NO naturalized players allowed under FIBA rules. NONE. NOT ONE. Players like Rahiem Wright of Jordan, Joe Vogel of Lebanon, and Daniel Sandrin of South Korea, weigh things too heavily for their team during competition and help their team win too much. Naturalized players mess up the competition and make the FIBA rankings junk, and worth very little in the end. ALL of the players in the ASIAN CHAMPIONSHIPS should be native-born and bred. If you have naturalized players on your team, it does not show what YOUR COUNTRY'S PLAYERS can do, it just shows what OTHER COUNTRIES' PLAYERS can do when put on your team, especially when that player is the 1st or 2nd best player on your team. No offense to these great players that I mentioned above on these teams, they are all great players, BUT they should not even BE here in the FIBA Asian Basketball Championships. To those respective countries that use naturalized players, I am sorry, I know that you want to win badly at all costs, and so you are willing to use naturalized players on your team, but they do not belong here, they should be disbarred from competition from now on, and should not be allowed. Sometimes it takes more courage, bravery, and strength, to lose like a man than to resort to cheating, dirty, underhanded, lowdown, and unethical tactics to win, like a coward or a wimp. Its a good thing FIBA only allows 1 naturalized player per team, or otherwise eventually after a couple of decades every Asian country's National Team would be full of foreign-born naturalized players, and there would be very few native-born sons from their own country on their own NATIONAL BASKETBALL TEAMS! :eek: Since naturalized players help their team to win so much, naturalized players make the FIBA rankings JUNK. Yes, I know that that is a strong word, but that is truth, they make the results of who wins games in these FIBA Asian Basketball Championships messed-up, and the FIBA rankings JUNK.

Imagine if China naturalized and put on their team retired NBA point guard Gary Payton--that would solve their point guard problems really quick and balance things out even more in their favor. Perhaps they should do that in the future. After all, more and more countries are doing it.

Seems like more amoral Asian cheating to me, whether its West Asian, South Asian, East Asian countries, etc., that does this. How come European and Latin American basketball powerhouses never use "naturalized players?" Are you lower than them?

In my opinion, half-blood players also should not be allowed on countries' national teams if the ancestor of the player whose country that the players want to play for is older than their grandparents. So then, there would be no more of this "one-drop" rule. For example: anotherwards "my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandmother or grandfather was _______________ <----(insert nationality here), and I have the papers to prove it, but now I look like an African-American guy", completely unlike any Asian nationality currently playing in the FIBA Asian Basketball Championships, "and I now want to play for this country's National Team and compete in the FIBA Asian Championships." That is wrong, and this rule would solve that problem.

Also in my opinion, players who DID NOT GROW UP IN THAT COUNTRY, should not be allowed to play on a DIFFERENT COUNTRY'S National Team. They are not a native bred son, even if they were born in that country, and they should not be allowed to play for that country's National Team. For example: If they are 25 years old now, and they were only born in that Asian country, but did not grow up there, and only for example lived there for 1 year and then moved away to another country when they were only a little baby, and then lived for the rest of their life in the United States, and even grew up there, and now they want to play for the country in which they were originally born in, but only lived there for about a year as an infant before they move away, and now they want to play for that country's National Team for a chance at some minor fame, honor, power, and glory, and perhaps for the experience of winning a regional international basketball championships. That is just ridiculous and wrong, and some kind of rule needs to be created in order to stop this, that guarantees that half-bloods who play on an Asian country's national team have at least spent their childhood there in the country on whose national basketball team they are trying to play for would help solve this problem. Though I am NOT, mind you, in favor of eliminating half-blood players from FIBA Basketball competitions altogether--that would be racist, I am only in favor of limiting the dirty and underhanded tricks that Asian countries use to win in FIBA-ASIA competitions.


And it does not matter if the naturalized player on your team "has lived and played in your country for a long time and intends to stay there for the rest of his life". Using naturalized players is cheating, dirty, lowdown, and unethical. And in the end, it messes up who wins the games in the FIBA-ASIA Basketball Championships, and messes up the countries true positions in the rankings all together, and makes the rankings all junk.

Therefore, I say these FIBA Asian Basketball Championships are all just junk, if FIBA continues to allow countries to use naturalized players on their countries' National Basketball Teams, and does not institute the rules that i suggested, or at least try to institute some rules to limit the abuses that I have pointed out. Some people will do anything to win and whenever you are designing a system, the leaders of that system must invent rules that do not allow people to cheat, and use underhanded dirty tactics and tricks to win, and allow others to win fairly and squarely as much as possible.

People need to lobby FIBA and FIBA-ASIA to get them to change this rule to make the current rules more righteous and fair.

karim
08-04-2007, 06:44 PM
if all the contendors have 1 naturalized player(leb,jordan,japan and korea)....than its equal...no1 is gaining an advantage on the other...the only cheaters are qatar who have 12 africans...the other 4 countries are just putting a good player in a place where they badly need him nthng illegal.....maybe ur just pissed cuz ur country doesnt want to naturalize a player and i dont blame u for getting mad....china is really weak on the world stage they barely get to the 2nd round every time and if u remove YAO MING they are even beatable by asian teams......1 of the largest populations in the world highly depending on 1 player now this is sad........

Dinamita
08-04-2007, 06:46 PM
whew... that was a long essay...:D

hey man, why dont you say this to TEAM USA! we all know none of them are 100% percent americans.... but they were using players like this for more than a century now... :D :D :D

And please dont say they are cheating (asians) I personally dont like naturalized players but it is in the RULES... so, basically we cant do anything about it....;)

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 07:02 PM
if all the contendors have 1 naturalized player(leb,jordan,japan and korea)....than its equal...no1 is gaining an advantage on the other...the only cheaters are qatar who have 12 africans...the other 4 countries are just putting a good player in a place where they badly need him nthng illegal.....maybe ur just pissed cuz ur country doesnt want to naturalize a player and i dont blame u for getting mad....china is really weak on the world stage they barely get to the 2nd round every time and if u remove YAO MING they are even beatable by asian teams......1 of the largest populations in the world highly depending on 1 player now this is sad........

I think deep down inside in your heart of hearts and sould of souls you know that it IS cheating, Karim, even though you seem to be willing to do anything to win, all for the glory of Lebanon. I mean Joe Vogel 15 rebounds? 6 Offensive? I mean he helped Lebanon to win the game over Korea. In fact, he was instrumental in helping Lebanon win. Daniel Sandrin also should not be there on the South Korean side, he helped them also. Those 2 players should be taken out, and they should do a rematch over again. All I know is that VERY FEW European or Latin American powerhouse basketball Nation Teams do this and use this tactic. It is dirty and underhanded, and that is part of the reason why. And I think that honestly that if China should do such a thing, especially at the guard spots, that they would do better against international competition, even outside Asia. I mean, imagine if they naturalized a Jason Kidd, or even a retired Gary Payton, then I think that China would do better even against the great European and Latin American powerhouse basketball teams, and then I think that they would win even more. They might just do that in the future, as more and more countries are doing it around the world, not just in Asia. But then it wouldn't truly be them that won, would it? And then their victory would truly be hollow, and not their own victory of their ownb people.

saints13
08-04-2007, 07:04 PM
good essay LeroyC33...we may have different views on this one..but your essay was very idealistic and very utopian..very much of a Chinese with conviction..anyway, given the chance you'll run for FIBA Presidency, I'll vote for you if my vote will be counted in! :D

guilty RP haha, wala nga naturalized, dami naman mga porenjer.hehe

translation:
your essay favors the Chinese NT, and very well said :)

karim
08-04-2007, 07:13 PM
no man leb is a great team they just have a weakness under the basket vogel covers that...i expect they will naturalize another tall center once he is retired in a couple of years...even though he has some huge shoes to fill....anyway leb has alot of height now...the U19 team has players in the 208 and 205 so in the future after vogel,s retirement and aging of the tall U19 players(they will be 21-22)they might not even naturalize a center even though i think we should.....theres nthing wrong with it....jordan filled their scoring gap with rasheem , japan also needed height like leb they got henderson and korea,s daniel well i think they got him for height also but i think they could,ve gotten a better player(hes only 2 meters and not that good).....in the next asian champ.......after i watched RP i expect them to naturalize a center also cuz they have talented guards but a big weakness under the basket(too many offensive rebounds against them way too many) and iran will probably naturalize a scorer.......they have good players but no stars like fadi,vogel and ali mahmoud which i hope he plays 2morrow we badly need him.......in the end LEROY the teams who are naturalizing 1 player are all against each other so no1,s cheating cuz all the teams are gaining the same and they are choosing the player they are naturalizing....its funny how u mentioned the teams who have naturalized 1 player but not qatar i hope u dont really think they are qatari :)

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 07:21 PM
whew... that was a long essay...:D

hey man, why dont you say this to TEAM USA! we all know none of them are 100% percent americans.... but they were using players like this for more than a century now... :D :D :D

And please dont say they are cheating (asians) I personally dont like naturalized players but it is in the RULES... so, basically we cant do anything about it....;)

I can't say this to team USA, because nobody on Team USA now would not believe that they are not Americans. I live in America, and if I said this to any basketball fan here on the streets of America, they would not believe me and they would laugh at me. I understand what you mean, but obviously most Americans do not now believe that they are using naturalized players. The American players who are on their USA Senior National Team obviously of course do not even think that they are naturalized players either by now, and that they are not 100% American. So, it wouldn't work, even if you said this to Americans, because they do not believe that they are naturalizing anyone anymore, even if they wrongly forced certain minorities into their country to use as slaves before.

And I am very sorry, but I have to say that I believe that this is cheating, it is legal under FIBA rules--even though I think it shouldn't be, but none of the stronger European and Latin American countries do it, because it is so amoral and underhanded and feels like cheating. A thing can be wrong, even though it is legal, but still be unethical and immoral, and even though naturalizing players is legal, it still feels wrong in the spirit of ethical competition and fair play.

I am sorry, but I think that people should really lobby FIBA to cut this rule out. Lebanon, South Korea, Jordan, even the upstart young Philippines, I believe that even if you could not naturalize players, (yes, I know that the Philippines does not have any naturalized players currently on their National Team), would be be good teams, and I believe all of them would still be one of the upper echelon teams in Asia. But I believe that your victories would be more substantial, and less hollow, and less suspicious, if they did not naturalize players. And I would believe that you would take more satisfaction in your victories if you won naturally, more fairly and squarely as well.

As it is now, I believe that the rankings cannot be taken seriously, because some of the victories in the FIBA-ASIA championships are suspicious because of the presence of naturalized players on some of the teams.

zupermann
08-04-2007, 07:23 PM
If You Have 2 Billion Chinese People, No Need To Naturalize Bacause You Have More Than Enough Resources Of Tall Basketball Players. Did You Know That China Is Actually Lacks In Basketball Development? How Can China's Team B Be Beaten By Rp Nt? China Should Have Enough Bball Players To Dominate Asia With Two Teams Because Of 2 Million People.:d

thugpinoy
08-04-2007, 07:30 PM
To the Half-Blood players thingy that you are talking, altough you did not mention the country, it is obviously you are pointing directly to RP.
first, some fil-ams in the team are 50% or 25% to the least. and they do have a Philippine Passport. they may look not exactly South East Asian but they are a true half-breed. and they did not choose to become half breed, they are even lucky grew in a fat soiled country. RP is very strict regarding the true nationality and not only basketball RP have an half breed players, other sports like boxing, swimming, baseball, Football ( heard of Younghusband ) teammate of Beckham in Chelsea?.
China is good team, i mean number in Asia without a shot of a doubt, you should be happy then because almost everybody wants to be where china is right now.

saints13
08-04-2007, 07:31 PM
If You Have 2 Billion Chinese People, No Need To Naturalize Bacause You Have More Than Enough Resources Of Tall Basketball Players. Did You Know That China Is Actually Lacks In Basketball Development? How Can China's Team B Be Beaten By Rp Nt? China Should Have Enough Bball Players To Dominate Asia With Two Teams Because Of 2 Million People.:d

wait wait wait..that was uncalled for :)

pardon his post, that was more of an assault rather than being objective..
a guy's post is not a nation's sentiment.. :)

anyway, let's respect each other's view and let's express ourselves objectively.. :)

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 07:37 PM
no man leb is a great team they just have a weakness under the basket vogel covers that...i expect they will naturalize another tall center once he is retired in a couple of years...even though he has some huge shoes to fill....anyway leb has alot of height now...the U19 team has players in the 208 and 205 so in the future after vogel,s retirement and aging of the tall U19 players(they will be 21-22)they might not even naturalize a center even though i think we should.....theres nthing wrong with it....jordan filled their scoring gap with rasheem , japan also needed height like leb they got henderson and korea,s daniel well i think they got him for height also but i think they could,ve gotten a better player(hes only 2 meters and not that good).....in the next asian champ.......after i watched RP i expect them to naturalize a center also cuz they have talented guards but a big weakness under the basket(too many offensive rebounds against them way too many) and iran will probably naturalize a scorer.......they have good players but no stars like fadi,vogel and ali mahmoud which i hope he plays 2morrow we badly need him.......in the end LEROY the teams who are naturalizing 1 player are all against each other so no1,s cheating cuz all the teams are gaining the same and they are choosing the player they are naturalizing....its funny how u mentioned the teams who have naturalized 1 player but not qatar i hope u dont really think they are qatari :)

Well...I don't want to argue with you, I guess we all can have our different opinions and still get along. I know that if other teams are naturalizing players in the next Asian Championships that eventually China will do the same. I just hope that if any of us makes it to the next level of international play, (I mean the World Championships), that the other countries don't lose respect for us that we do such a thing. I mean, I am an American, and if I thought of such a thing watching the FIBA-ASIA Championships, then I know that some people of other countries might think the same thing.

I mean, I hate to tell you this, since I know that you are all here on this message board for a different reason, but rankings are junk. It doesn't matter if you are 1st--which Lebanon might be at the end of this Asian Championships or 16th, like the United Arab Emirates, we are all equal. When judging someone, things all depend upon the person as an individual anyway.

And I would like to apologize for the behavior of some of my fellow Chinese posters here, I think that some of their responses were too much. I mean, when I read some of their responses to what some of the supporters of the RP National Team said, I was cringing that they actually said some of the stuff that they actually said to you guys. I think somne of them care about this stuff too much.

Dinamita
08-04-2007, 07:42 PM
I can't say this to team USA, because nobody on Team USA now would not believe that they are not Americans. I live in America, and if I said this to any basketball fan here on the streets of America, they would not believe me and they would laugh at me. I understand what you mean, but obviously most Americans do not now believe that they are using naturalized players. The American players who are on their USA Senior National Team obviously of course do not even think that they are naturalized players either by now, and that they are not 100% American. So, it wouldn't work, even if you said this to Americans, because they do not believe that they are naturalizing anyone anymore, even if they wrongly forced certain minorities into their country to use as slaves before.

And I am very sorry, but I have to say that I believe that this is cheating, it is legal under FIBA rules--even though I think it shouldn't be, but none of the stronger European and Latin American countries do it, because it is so amoral and underhanded and feels like cheating. A thing can be wrong, even though it is legal, but still be unethical and immoral, and even though naturalizing players is legal, it still feels wrong in the spirit of ethical competition and fair play.

I am sorry, but I think that people should really lobby FIBA to cut this rule out. Lebanon, South Korea, Jordan, even the upstart young Philippines, I believe that even if you could not naturalize players, (yes, I know that the Philippines does not have any naturalized players currently on their National Team), would be be good teams, and I believe all of them would still be one of the upper echelon teams in Asia. But I believe that your victories would be more substantial, and less hollow, and less suspicious, if they did not naturalize players. And I would believe that you would take more satisfaction in your victories if you won naturally, more fairly and squarely as well.

As it is now, I believe that the rankings cannot be taken seriously, because some of the victories in the FIBA-ASIA championships are suspicious because of the presence of naturalized players on some of the teams.

I feel you.... A black guy or white guy bringing an ASIAN TEAM to the olympics is just odd looking....Id say go gather some people and have a protest in FIBA's main office :D :D :D ...

saints13
08-04-2007, 07:42 PM
ah you mean taipan guy saying FUCK YOU FILIPINOS..lolz

that's ok, it was so childish and uncalled for :)

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 07:52 PM
To the Half-Blood players thingy that you are talking, altough you did not mention the country, it is obviously you are pointing directly to RP.
first, some fil-ams in the team are 50% or 25% to the least. and they do have a Philippine Passport. they may look not exactly South East Asian but they are a true half-breed. and they did not choose to become half breed, they are even lucky grew in a fat soiled country. RP is very strict regarding the true nationality and not only basketball RP have an half breed players, other sports like boxing, swimming, baseball, Football ( heard of Younghusband ) teammate of Beckham in Chelsea?.
China is good team, i mean number in Asia without a shot of a doubt, you should be happy then because almost everybody wants to be where china is right now.

Fine, fine, fine...I don't mean to argue with you. I guess if everything were perfectly righteous, at least some of the rules that I suggested would be followed and implemented, but since nothing is ideal on this Earth but individuals, I will just leave it at that.

Plus, on that note, I believe that if all things were perfect, I think that there is one other great wrong in terms of the rules of FIBA for Asia, as another poster previously mentioned, and that is that Asia has only 1 slot to the World Championships. I think that that is just junk and unfair. I mean, if you look at FIBA-Oceana, they also have 1 slot. And, if you followed the results of the Stankovic Cup in China, then you know that the 2nd best team in Oceana, New Zealand, was beaten by China by 30 points, so the talent level difference between New Zealand and Australia, which wins that region's FIBA-Oceana slot to the World Championships year after year is great. And yet, they only give FIBA-ASIA, a land of billions and billions of people, only 1 slot to the World Championships. They justify it by saying that they give only 1 slot to Asia because of the talent level, but I think that that is ridiculous, and is full of racism, prejudice, and racist contempt, and lack of belief of the equality of Asians by FIBA for Asians, which I think is wrong. I believe that FIBA should be multinationally run, not just run by mostly Europeans at trhe very top.

Phantim3dx
08-04-2007, 07:52 PM
ah you mean taipan guy saying FUCK YOU FILIPINOS..lolz

that's ok, it was so childish and uncalled for :)


is that guy banned yet or what? can we got an ip search on him and see if it stemming from another member in these threads....

zupermann
08-04-2007, 07:54 PM
Well...I don't want to argue with you, I guess we all can have our different opinions and still get along. I know that if other teams are naturalizing players in the next Asian Championships that eventually China will do the same. I just hope that if any of us makes it to the next level of international play, (I mean the World Championships), that the other countries don't lose respect for us that we do such a thing. I mean, I am an American, and if I thought of such a thing watching the FIBA-ASIA Championships, then I know that some people of other countries might think the same thing.

I mean, I hate to tell you this, since I know that you are all here on this message board for a different reason, but rankings are junk. It doesn't matter if you are 1st--which Lebanon might be at the end of this Asian Championships or 16th, like the United Arab Emirates, we are all equal. When judging someone, things all depend upon the person as an individual anyway.

And I would like to apologize for the behavior of some of my fellow Chinese posters here, I think that some of their responses were too much. I mean, when I read some of their responses to what some of the supporters of the RP National Team said, I was cringing that they actually said some of the stuff that they actually said to you guys. I think somne of them care about this stuff too much.

CARE TOO MUCH? Dude this is a basketball forum, of course posters here are going to care too much about their basketball team. This is not a COMPLAINING FORUM, which what you are doing right now. You got the best best basketball team in Asia, get over it!

saints13
08-04-2007, 07:55 PM
is that guy banned yet or what? can we got an ip search on him and see if it stemming from another member in these threads....

I don't know about that ----, he hasn't logged-in for quite a while.. :) maybe he's using his other pseudo-accounts..who knows.. :)

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 07:58 PM
[/B]

CARE TOO MUCH? Dude this is a basketball forum, of course posters here are going to care too much about their basketball team. This is not a COMPLAINING FORUM, which what you are doing right now. You got the best best basketball team in Asia, get over it!

OK, perhaps you're right.

thugpinoy
08-04-2007, 08:01 PM
Fine, fine, fine...I don't mean to argue with you. I guess if everything were perfectly righteous, at least some of the rules that I suggested would be followed and implemented, but since nothing is ideal on this Earth but individuals, I will just leave it at that.

Plus, on that note, I believe that if all things were perfect, I think that there is one other great wrong in terms of the rules of FIBA for Asia, as another poster previously mentioned, and that is that Asia has only 1 slot to the World Championships. I think that that is just junk and unfair. I mean, if you look at FIBA-Oceana, they also have 1 slot. And, if you followed the results of the Stankovic Cup in China, then you know that the 2nd best team in Oceana, New Zealand, was beaten by China by 30 points, so the talent level difference between New Zealand and Australia, which wins that region's FIBA-Oceana slot to the World Championships year after year is great. And yet, they only give FIBA-ASIA, a land of billions and billions of people, only 1 slot to the World Championships. They justify it by saying that they give only 1 slot to Asia because of the talent level, but I think that that is ridiculous, and is full of racism, prejudice, and racist contempt, and lack of belief of the equality of Asians by FIBA for Asians, which I think is wrong. I believe that FIBA should be multinationally run, not just run by mostly Europeans at trhe very top.

maybe Asia needs to prove more, and thats what your China Team A is doing now, showing the other regions the Asian Style of play. promoting our Continent in terms of Basketball improvement.

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 08:08 PM
ah you mean taipan guy saying FUCK YOU FILIPINOS..lolz

that's ok, it was so childish and uncalled for :)

Yeah, hahaha. I am laughing because it was embarrassing to us. I am a full-blooded Chinese person, and those crazy Chinese posters made us look so bad. I apologize to you for all of what they said. I mean, even if some of the Philippine NT team supporters started it, so what? They should have reacted with forbearance, tolerance, and humility, and instead they reacted with vengefulness and arrogance. Give me a break. They went too far, they shouldn't have said what they said, and they shouldn't have reacted at all. I mean, in my opinion, even if China were 75th out of 75th place at the bottom of FIBA's basketball rankings, they wouldn't be inferior or worse than anyone, and even if China were 1st in FIBA's rankings, they wouldn't be better or higher than anyone at all. We are still all equal, no matter who is better at basketball, and besides different people are better at different things anyway, I mean, look at the great Philippine boxer Manny "Pac Man the Destroyer" Pacquiao. He is a great boxer. And certainly the best in his weight division in Asia. So, just ignore those posters next time, think nothing of it, and just continue on with your conversation as if they didn't exist if they post more inflammatory or obnoxious messages next time.

zouz
08-04-2007, 08:11 PM
I think deep down inside in your heart of hearts and sould of souls you know that it IS cheating, Karim, even though you seem to be willing to do anything to win, all for the glory of Lebanon. I mean Joe Vogel 15 rebounds? 6 Offensive? I mean he helped Lebanon to win the game over Korea. In fact, he was instrumental in helping Lebanon win. Daniel Sandrin also should not be there on the South Korean side, he helped them also. Those 2 players should be taken out, and they should do a rematch over again. All I know is that VERY FEW European or Latin American powerhouse basketball Nation Teams do this and use this tactic. It is dirty and underhanded, and that is part of the reason why. And I think that honestly that if China should do such a thing, especially at the guard spots, that they would do better against international competition, even outside Asia. I mean, imagine if they naturalized a Jason Kidd, or even a retired Gary Payton, then I think that China would do better even against the great European and Latin American powerhouse basketball teams, and then I think that they would win even more. They might just do that in the future, as more and more countries are doing it around the world, not just in Asia. But then it wouldn't truly be them that won, would it? And then their victory would truly be hollow, and not their own victory of their ownb people.
man china is more than 1 billion which means u will find somehow 12 players who can win everything...we lebanese are only 4 million so yes i believe naturalizing a player is good for small countires like ours

saints13
08-04-2007, 08:13 PM
Taipan is a racist, he hates every letter posted by a Filipino here in this forum..anyway, I'm not racial, I even criticize and argue with my own race. how I wish more educated and well-mannered Asian will come and invade IBN. :)

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 08:15 PM
Yeah, hahaha. I am laughing because it was embarrassing to us. I am a full-blooded Chinese person, and those crazy Chinese posters made us look so bad. I apologize to you for all of what they said. I mean, even if some of the Philippine NT team supporters started it, so what? They should have reacted with forbearance, tolerance, and humility, and instead they reacted with vengefulness and arrogance. Give me a break. They went too far, they shouldn't have said what they said, and they shouldn't have reacted at all. I mean, in my opinion, even if China were 75th out of 75th place at the bottom of FIBA's basketball rankings, they wouldn't be inferior or worse than anyone, and even if China were 1st in FIBA's rankings, they wouldn't be better or higher than anyone at all. We are still all equal, no matter who is better at basketball, and besides different people are better at different things anyway, I mean, look at the great Philippine boxer Manny "Pac Man the Destroyer" Pacquiao. He is a great boxer. And certainly the best in his weight division in Asia. So, just ignore those posters next time, think nothing of it, and just continue on with your conversation as if they didn't exist if they post more inflammatory or obnoxious messages next time.

I mean, I hate to say this to those Chinese posters, but even if other people attacked you first and put you down first, revenge and arrogance are bad things. I hope some of them read this, I know that some of them will attack me for being "soft" and "weak" for what I say after reading this, but I believe that it is just the opposite, a TRUE MAN can take anything and bear any burden without complaint. He doesn't respond to every little attack that other people do to him, and he doesn't just explode because other people don't agree with him. Besides, if he is right, then the truth will prove itself, even if other people don't believe it or see it. This is just something for those Chinese posters to read, just so those flame wars don't take up the whole board again, and posters don't dominate the whole board with their fighting and turn the board into a worse place for everyone.

zouz
08-04-2007, 08:17 PM
Taipan is a racist, he hates every letter posted by a Filipino here in this forum..anyway, I'm not racial, I even criticize and argue with my own race. how I wish more educated and well-mannered Asian will come and invade IBN. :)
man i really repect u...i've read a lot of ur quotes and u always talk with reason and not offending anyone......i really respect ur opinion and ur behavior

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 08:17 PM
man china is more than 1 billion which means u will find somehow 12 players who can win everything...we lebanese are only 4 million so yes i believe naturalizing a player is good for small countires like ours

Well, OK. I guess that as long as the rule is applied to everyone, (which I know that it is), then it is fair.

saints13
08-04-2007, 08:20 PM
man i really repect u...i've read a lot of ur quotes and u always talk with reason and not offending anyone......i really respect ur opinion and ur behavior

well, thanks Lebanese bro ;)

zouz
08-04-2007, 08:21 PM
well, thanks Lebanese bro ;)
no problem:D

daniab
08-04-2007, 08:22 PM
Sure vogel is one of important player in Lebanon but many countries used the naturalizion like Russia,Lebanon,Jordan,Quatar,Japan,Korea and Rp have a lot of mix-blood.
Anyway btw Lebanon 4 millions people and china the largest population in the world big different.
And one player will not changed all the team if these team isn't good.Like lebanon joe vogel not only in our team,el khatib and all the players have an equal in importance.

The naturalizion are used also in many sports, like germany in football,Quatar in atheltic, .....

saints13
08-04-2007, 08:32 PM
if having half-breds is a crime..then RP NT is guilty..LOLZ :D

well I guess the flames already died down on this thread.. :rolleyes:

thugpinoy
08-04-2007, 08:41 PM
Yeah, hahaha. I am laughing because it was embarrassing to us. I am a full-blooded Chinese person, and those crazy Chinese posters made us look so bad. I apologize to you for all of what they said. I mean, even if some of the Philippine NT team supporters started it, so what? They should have reacted with forbearance, tolerance, and humility, and instead they reacted with vengefulness and arrogance. Give me a break. They went too far, they shouldn't have said what they said, and they shouldn't have reacted at all. I mean, in my opinion, even if China were 75th out of 75th place at the bottom of FIBA's basketball rankings, they wouldn't be inferior or worse than anyone, and even if China were 1st in FIBA's rankings, they wouldn't be better or higher than anyone at all. We are still all equal, no matter who is better at basketball, and besides different people are better at different things anyway, I mean, look at the great Philippine boxer Manny "Pac Man the Destroyer" Pacquiao. He is a great boxer. And certainly the best in his weight division in Asia. So, just ignore those posters next time, think nothing of it, and just continue on with your conversation as if they didn't exist if they post more inflammatory or obnoxious messages next time.

OT - on a lighter note..

Manny " Pacman " Pacquiao vs. Marco Antonio Barrera II
October 6, 2007 at Las Vegas, Nevada
Live PPV
once again showing that he is a proud Asian! :D

thugpinoy
08-04-2007, 08:44 PM
if having half-breds is a crime..then RP NT is guilty..LOLZ :D

well I guess the flames already died down on this thread.. :rolleyes:

Are you singing or what?? Blue FANatic :D :p

LeroyC33
08-04-2007, 08:52 PM
if having half-breds is a crime..then RP NT is guilty..LOLZ :D

well I guess the flames already died down on this thread.. :rolleyes:

Well, no, I never said having half-breeds on different countries' National Teams is a crime or was wrong. That would be racist, and I don't want to be racist to anyone here. What I meant was that, at least FIBA should attempt to make sure that the half-breeds or interracially mixed players on different countries' national teams grew up in the country on whose national teams they are in, that way then, they can be said to be that country's native bred son, and not merely an addition that they added to that country's national team to win. Like I think that maybe, that FIBA should have a rule stating that an interracially mixed player should at least have lived in the country whose national team that he is playing on as an adult for 15 years or something before they moved to another country to live before they can play on their original country's national team. Or, if you prefer, maybe the age range should be even younger to allow even more players to play for their countries' national teams than would ordinarily be allowed using the 15 year rule, like 12 years or something. That would at least guarantee that the athlete at least grew up in the country whose national team they are competing for, and truly represents their country, instead of just being added on to the team in order to help them to win. I think that even if FIBA had a rule like this, there would be at least some interracially mixed players who would be able to play on their country's national team in any sport, and that they would still be able to represent their country in that sport on that country's national team, and that interracially mixed players would still not be left out of FIBA's basketball competitions. Sofoklis Schortsanitis, or "Baby Shaq", as he is called, is a good example of this, where he is an interracially mixed player from a white father and a black mother, but grew up in Greece, and plays on their national team.

I believe that even if FIBA invents and enforces something like the rule mentioned above, that interracially mixed children would still be able to make their countries' national teams in a variety of sports, which of course, I think that they should be allowed to do.

saints13
08-04-2007, 09:05 PM
I was just kidding, nothing serious about my post :)

karim
08-04-2007, 10:14 PM
looks like leroy felt the pressure that leb might give china a run for its money next championship :p dt worry leroy if china is a dominant country in asia than 1 player shouldnt make a difference(vogel) if china has 1 billion people and lebanon just 4 million......btw im thinking now china has 1 billion people and their 2nd team lost in the 1st round...and at the world stage they are hightly dependant on Yao Ming....they are not good at all compared to their population :p .....

LeroyC33
08-05-2007, 02:17 AM
looks like leroy felt the pressure that leb might give china a run for its money next championship :p dt worry leroy if china is a dominant country in asia than 1 player shouldnt make a difference(vogel) if china has 1 billion people and lebanon just 4 million......btw im thinking now china has 1 billion people and their 2nd team lost in the 1st round...and at the world stage they are hightly dependant on Yao Ming....they are not good at all compared to their population :p .....

Uh, well...not quite Karim. It is not China that I am thinking about, but Korea. I was trying to figure out why Korea, which used to do well in basketball in Asia, and used to be consistently 2nd or 3rd in Asia, now is only 3rd or maybe even 4th in Asia, and why countries like Lebanon are now doing well in the FIBA-ASIA Championships when they did worse before, and then I stumbled upon it: Joe Vogel.

Joe Vogel has been a part of the Lebanese team for several years, and the Lebanese team has been doing consistently well, coming in 2nd in most Asian basketball competitions in the last several years when he is on the team. He definitely tips the balance of the scales in Lebanon's favor, as evidenced by his 18 point, 15 rebound (game high), 1 steal performance, in the FIBA-ASIA Championships semi-final. Lebanon only won by 2 points, so they barely squeaked by Korea. And as Yao Ming shows on the Chinese National Team, one player can definitely make a big difference on a basketball team, as Lebron James also shows in getting his team to the NBA Finals. I think that without Joe Vogel, Lebanon might not have won the semi-final and Korea might have won instead. That may or may not be true, but then I think that they should replay the match without their imports this time--Lebanon without Joe Vogel, and South Korea without Daniel Sandrin, and then that would erase all doubt. That is also why I say, that rankings are junk, because using certain tricks like importing good naturalized players certain countries can win more games in international competitions and vault their countries ranking way higher than they really deserve, even more than the native sons of their own people of the country really deserve. China's FIBA ranking may even be lower than they really deserve.

My point is not to prove that South Korea is a greater country than Lebanon, or even that Lebanon is a greater country than South Korea. I believe that they are all equal regardless of who wins or loses in basketball, but to prove the verse in the Bible that says, "The battle does not go to the strong, nor the race to the swift".

Rankings are just junk, they are meaningless, but if you choose to rank countries as superior or inferior by having competitions, then you must do it in a fair way, and not include naturalized players that were born in America. Some Iranians are complaining in the FIBA news reports of Lebanon's semi-final victory over Korea in the comments section even before Lebanon's final match against Iran that Lebanon has American players on their team and are not pure-blooded Persians as the Iranians are claiming that their country's basketball team is. As long as you have this loophole in the FIBA rules, then if you win over people, people will always be suspicious of your victory and claim that it is not genuine. And so I believe that FIBA should close this loophole, and let only players born and bred in their native land compete on their national basketball teams so that they can truly represent their country.

budz17
08-05-2007, 02:20 AM
if having half-breds is a crime..then RP NT is guilty..LOLZ :D

well I guess the flames already died down on this thread.. :rolleyes:

man, I have an issue calling peole half-breeds. it does'nt sound good. its not right. it sounds like like your talking about an animal. they're real people. its not their fault they were born that way. have a heart bro

LeroyC33
08-05-2007, 02:24 AM
man, I have an issue calling peole half-breeds. it does'nt sound good. its not right. it sounds like like your talking about an animal. they're real people. its not their fault they were born that way. have a heart bro

Yeah, I agree. That's why I stopped calling them that and changed it to interracially mixed, because I realized that if any interracially mixed children read this, then they might be very offended by what I said, and get mad at me, so I changed what I was calling them to interracially mixed so I wouldn't offend them.

budz17
08-05-2007, 02:30 AM
if FIBA allows a country to use naturalized players, then so be it. no use crying about something you have no control of. if fiba allows countries to use players with dual citizenship, then so be it. these people are subject to the laws of countries they are playing for. my understanding is, if you are naturalized, tyhen you renouce your former citzenship. so if rasheim wright is naturalized, he is no longer american. he is jordanian.

yes, its true, it takes away something from the joy if your team wins with naturalized players. its up to those countries if they can accept that kind of a win. no need to blast fiba about it and call this FIBA Asia championships junk.


but blast fiba for giving asia only 1 slot in olympics, that's the real junk.

kepweng
08-05-2007, 02:53 AM
I am also against the rule of naturalizing but I think some other countries with small populations really needs it, so be it. And Karim pls don't brag too much and say China is just about Yao Ming coz obviously its not. What about you, your Fadi El-Khatib super rangers team?

BigFatPandaBear
08-05-2007, 03:01 AM
but blast fiba for giving asia only 1 slot in olympics, that's the real junk.

It has only one slot because it deserves only one slot. You look at the FIBA rankings and you see only one Asian team in the top 12. The Olympics only accepts 12 teams.

b3lowzro
08-05-2007, 03:16 AM
is Daniel Sandrin a naturalized player, I thought he was a half Korean? I think Korea would have naturalized a taller, more agile and has more upper body strength that can support Ha under the boards.
________
Nikol (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Nikol/)

SkyWalker
08-05-2007, 04:15 AM
sourgraping?:confused:

BigFatPandaBear
08-05-2007, 04:23 AM
The Asian Championship is not junk because of the naturalized players. If you are good then you should overcome naturalized players and half-breeds. China's A team have no problem with it.

But the Asian Championships is junk because of the weakness of the competition and that includes China itself. LOL

China is therefore right to train the A team in the Stankovic Cup. It doesn't do China or Asia any good for Yao, Yi, Wang, Sun and the rest of the A team to play in the Asian Championships.

Why? Because in order for Asia to gain any more slots, Asians have to start winning against teams from other continents. This is why Lebanon is the second strongest team in Asia by far. It has won against outsiders in the WBC, including France and Venezuela.

saints13
08-05-2007, 04:33 AM
man, I have an issue calling peole half-breeds. it does'nt sound good. its not right. it sounds like like your talking about an animal. they're real people. its not their fault they were born that way. have a heart bro

does half-bred sounds animalistic? oh, I'm sorry for the term, but I don't see anything foul about it though. :)

lamarhen
08-05-2007, 09:50 AM
yeah , it kinda like cheating ,but on the other hand its in the rules.

IMO,i think it's alright as long as they dont naturalize Kobe:)

joel23
08-05-2007, 11:47 AM
Daniel Sadrin is Luxembourg blood!

joel23
08-05-2007, 11:49 AM
Now here is why...

There should be NO naturalized players allowed under FIBA rules. NONE. NOT ONE. Players like Rahiem Wright of Jordan, Joe Vogel of Lebanon, and Daniel Sandrin of South Korea, weigh things too heavily for their team during competition and help their team win too much. Naturalized players mess up the competition and make the FIBA rankings junk, and worth very little in the end. ALL of the players in the ASIAN CHAMPIONSHIPS should be native-born and bred. If you have naturalized players on your team, it does not show what YOUR COUNTRY'S PLAYERS can do, it just shows what OTHER COUNTRIES' PLAYERS can do when put on your team, especially when that player is the 1st or 2nd best player on your team. No offense to these great players that I mentioned above on these teams, they are all great players, BUT they should not even BE here in the FIBA Asian Basketball Championships. To those respective countries that use naturalized players, I am sorry, I know that you want to win badly at all costs, and so you are willing to use naturalized players on your team, but they do not belong here, they should be disbarred from competition from now on, and should not be allowed. Sometimes it takes more courage, bravery, and strength, to lose like a man than to resort to cheating, dirty, underhanded, lowdown, and unethical tactics to win, like a coward or a wimp. Its a good thing FIBA only allows 1 naturalized player per team, or otherwise eventually after a couple of decades every Asian country's National Team would be full of foreign-born naturalized players, and there would be very few native-born sons from their own country on their own NATIONAL BASKETBALL TEAMS! :eek: Since naturalized players help their team to win so much, naturalized players make the FIBA rankings JUNK. Yes, I know that that is a strong word, but that is truth, they make the results of who wins games in these FIBA Asian Basketball Championships messed-up, and the FIBA rankings JUNK.

Imagine if China naturalized and put on their team retired NBA point guard Gary Payton--that would solve their point guard problems really quick and balance things out even more in their favor. Perhaps they should do that in the future. After all, more and more countries are doing it.

Seems like more amoral Asian cheating to me, whether its West Asian, South Asian, East Asian countries, etc., that does this. How come European and Latin American basketball powerhouses never use "naturalized players?" Are you lower than them?

In my opinion, half-blood players also should not be allowed on countries' national teams if the ancestor of the player whose country that the players want to play for is older than their grandparents. So then, there would be no more of this "one-drop" rule. For example: anotherwards "my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandmother or grandfather was _______________ <----(insert nationality here), and I have the papers to prove it, but now I look like an African-American guy", completely unlike any Asian nationality currently playing in the FIBA Asian Basketball Championships, "and I now want to play for this country's National Team and compete in the FIBA Asian Championships." That is wrong, and this rule would solve that problem.

Also in my opinion, players who DID NOT GROW UP IN THAT COUNTRY, should not be allowed to play on a DIFFERENT COUNTRY'S National Team. They are not a native bred son, even if they were born in that country, and they should not be allowed to play for that country's National Team. For example: If they are 25 years old now, and they were only born in that Asian country, but did not grow up there, and only for example lived there for 1 year and then moved away to another country when they were only a little baby, and then lived for the rest of their life in the United States, and even grew up there, and now they want to play for the country in which they were originally born in, but only lived there for about a year as an infant before they move away, and now they want to play for that country's National Team for a chance at some minor fame, honor, power, and glory, and perhaps for the experience of winning a regional international basketball championships. That is just ridiculous and wrong, and some kind of rule needs to be created in order to stop this, that guarantees that half-bloods who play on an Asian country's national team have at least spent their childhood there in the country on whose national basketball team they are trying to play for would help solve this problem. Though I am NOT, mind you, in favor of eliminating half-blood players from FIBA Basketball competitions altogether--that would be racist, I am only in favor of limiting the dirty and underhanded tricks that Asian countries use to win in FIBA-ASIA competitions.


And it does not matter if the naturalized player on your team "has lived and played in your country for a long time and intends to stay there for the rest of his life". Using naturalized players is cheating, dirty, lowdown, and unethical. And in the end, it messes up who wins the games in the FIBA-ASIA Basketball Championships, and messes up the countries true positions in the rankings all together, and makes the rankings all junk.

Therefore, I say these FIBA Asian Basketball Championships are all just junk, if FIBA continues to allow countries to use naturalized players on their countries' National Basketball Teams, and does not institute the rules that i suggested, or at least try to institute some rules to limit the abuses that I have pointed out. Some people will do anything to win and whenever you are designing a system, the leaders of that system must invent rules that do not allow people to cheat, and use underhanded dirty tactics and tricks to win, and allow others to win fairly and squarely as much as possible.

People need to lobby FIBA and FIBA-ASIA to get them to change this rule to make the current rules more righteous and fair.

Why are you complaining with naturalize players and your team with Mengke Bateer?

rikhardur
08-05-2007, 11:56 AM
Why are you complaining with naturalize players and your team with Mengke Bateer?
Mengke Bateer is Chinese, he was born in Inner Mongolia, which is Chinese territory, not Mongolian as the name may suggest.

joel23
08-05-2007, 12:15 PM
Mengke Bateer is Chinese, he was born in Inner Mongolia, which is Chinese territory, not Mongolian as the name may suggest.

Are you sure? Ok never mind

norwood
08-05-2007, 01:16 PM
Mengke Bateer is Chinese, he was born in Inner Mongolia, which is Chinese territory, not Mongolian as the name may suggest.

Are you sure? Ok never mind

HEHEHE, I THINK JOEL23 WAS JUST ASSUMING THAT BATEER IS NOT A THRU BLOODED CHINESE..NICE TRY BRO JOEL:D

NOW LEROYC33 CLAIMS WAS PREVAILED!
PURELY NATIVE BLOODED IRANIAN(74) ROOSTER DEFEATED LEBANON(69) IN ABC CHAMPIONSHIP WITH JOEVOGEL LIB NATURALIZED PLAYER...:cool:

bobo81
08-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Half blooded is not bad and there is nothing wrong with this. I would call it stupid to label this naturalizing.

I agree a country (like Qatar) should not be able to naturalize more than 1 player. I, on the other hand, agree with naturalizing at least 1 player, at least for now. It helps Asia get their foot in the door a little more.

And btw part of me wants to attack you leroy because of the Chinese team blowing out of this tournament....but I wont say anything ;)

interxavierxxx
08-05-2007, 01:37 PM
guys!! if u notice all these years... the teams who won the ABC are always the ones who are pure-blooded.

China - they won all of their championships without any naturalized player or mixed-blooded players.
Philippines - we won all of our championships when our players were all pure and I mean pure. dat's how we won the bronze at the world championships.
Japan - They were once a force but now they're superiority now has declined ever since they had naturalized and mix-blooded players.
Korea - All of their players were pure until now. they would've had won the championships more than twice if it weren't for China's dynasty.
Iran - These guys always were pure so they probably deserved to win.

take my advice: NO MORE MIX BLOODED OR NATURALIZED PLAYERS NEXT TIME

joel23
08-05-2007, 01:55 PM
guys!! if u notice all these years... the teams who won the ABC are always the ones who are pure-blooded.

China - they won all of their championships without any naturalized player or mixed-blooded players.
Philippines - we won all of our championships when our players were all pure and I mean pure. dat's how we won the bronze at the world championships.
Japan - They were once a force but now they're superiority now has declined ever since they had naturalized and mix-blooded players.
Korea - All of their players were pure until now. they would've had won the championships more than twice if it weren't for China's dynasty.
Iran - These guys always were pure so they probably deserved to win.

take my advice: NO MORE MIX BLOODED OR NATURALIZED PLAYERS NEXT TIME

Hey hey i'm not agree with you guys. Why Carlos Loyzaga is half-Filipino-Spanish?

phevergy
08-05-2007, 02:39 PM
I don't favor naturalizing...it's obviously cheating...that's the fact.
Blame it to FIBA...

arnoldt
08-05-2007, 03:27 PM
guys!! if u notice all these years... the teams who won the ABC are always the ones who are pure-blooded.

China - they won all of their championships without any naturalized player or mixed-blooded players.
Philippines - we won all of our championships when our players were all pure and I mean pure. dat's how we won the bronze at the world championships.
Japan - They were once a force but now they're superiority now has declined ever since they had naturalized and mix-blooded players.
Korea - All of their players were pure until now. they would've had won the championships more than twice if it weren't for China's dynasty.
Iran - These guys always were pure so they probably deserved to win.

take my advice: NO MORE MIX BLOODED OR NATURALIZED PLAYERS NEXT TIME

we won in 1985 in Ipoh, Malaysia with 3 naturalized players, Dennis Still, Chip Engelland and Jeffrey Moore.

joel23
08-05-2007, 03:34 PM
It should be born in the land only.

sickcurtain_16
08-05-2007, 03:51 PM
Yes, I agree with you here. It is somehow bringing some weight of racism hear and at the same time, the officials just show how UNOBSERVANT they are.

Here's what Baumann is saying in the fiba asia news:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/07/fibaAsia/men/news/lateNews/p/newsid/21202/FE_news_lateNews_arti.html

"But if you see the flip side, Asian teams are not very consistent in international performances. Like China has always been on top at the Asian level. But in international competition, they are yet to break into the top level. Whereas if you see the African nations, like Nigeria for instance in the last world championship came close to beating Germany and France. So you see African teams have suddenly shown faster progress than Asian teams."

Didn't he watch the games? Didn't he know that Lebanon is Asia and already beaten France? And if that's what he reasons out about China not breaking on top, how about Australia? Did they ever went in the semis?

Maybe, it's about time that Asia should be given at least two slots. So I would like to see China and Iran kicking asses on 08 Olympics.

YinkaDare
08-05-2007, 05:00 PM
It should be born in the land only.

yeah man! and not on water :D

Pinoycyberwebs
08-05-2007, 05:42 PM
FIBA ASIA suck! Game is Fixed!

I still remember Philippines V Iran! That game is Fixed! That referee is a good friend of iranian coach!

I will not respect FIBA! shame on you FIBA!

rycorpz
08-05-2007, 05:43 PM
FIBA ASIA suck! Game is Fixed!

I still remember Philippines V Iran! That game is Fixed! That referee is a good friend of iranian coach!

I will not respect FIBA! shame on you FIBA!
you've got some conviction there

saints13
08-05-2007, 06:47 PM
FIBA ASIA suck! Game is Fixed!

I still remember Philippines V Iran! That game is Fixed! That referee is a good friend of iranian coach!

I will not respect FIBA! shame on you FIBA!

if all Filipinos will have that kind of mentality..then our basketball will never grow at par with Asia's best..LOL..blaming everything on variables which are constantly out-of-hand is a recipe for disaster :)

budz17
08-06-2007, 08:48 AM
does half-bred sounds animalistic? oh, I'm sorry for the term, but I don't see anything foul about it though. :)
it sounds like your talking about a dog or a horse. half-blood is fine. if you don't find anything offensive about it, then good for you. but others will and do find it offensive. nothing against you though. peace:D

b3lowzro
08-06-2007, 12:54 PM
Hey hey i'm not agree with you guys. Why Carlos Loyzaga is half-Filipino-Spanish?

well he has Basque lineage but still he's pure pinoy 'cause he's born here in the PH with Filipino parents. Its like saying that Atoy Co or Samboy Lim is half Filipino and Half Chinese which is not because both of their parents are Filipino citizen even if they descended from Chinese immigrants.

saints13
08-06-2007, 01:29 PM
it sounds like your talking about a dog or a horse. half-blood is fine. if you don't find anything offensive about it, then good for you. but others will and do find it offensive. nothing against you though. peace:D

well, I'm not into pets, sorry I have no idea.:D

onono1
08-06-2007, 02:29 PM
It should be born in the land only.

What if the baby was born on the sea or by air :rolleyes:

joel23
08-07-2007, 12:49 PM
FIBA is the law of European ballers...

Holy Hand Grenade
08-08-2007, 04:21 AM
I can't say this to team USA, because nobody on Team USA now would not believe that they are not Americans. I live in America, and if I said this to any basketball fan here on the streets of America, they would not believe me and they would laugh at me. I understand what you mean, but obviously most Americans do not now believe that they are using naturalized players. The American players who are on their USA Senior National Team obviously of course do not even think that they are naturalized players either by now, and that they are not 100% American. So, it wouldn't work, even if you said this to Americans, because they do not believe that they are naturalizing anyone anymore, even if they wrongly forced certain minorities into their country to use as slaves before.

You either have a short memory or a highly selective one. The US HAS used naturalized players, and they've been acknowledged as such. Even the most inbred redneck can't deny that Hakeem Olajuwon is Nigerian, his name and accent just scream it. And yet he played for Team USA, and was accepted by the American public. Or less well known is the fact that Patrick Ewing was originally Bahamanian. (Tim Duncan doesn't count, btw, since Virgin Islanders have US citizenship).

joel23
08-08-2007, 05:01 AM
You either have a short memory or a highly selective one. The US HAS used naturalized players, and they've been acknowledged as such. Even the most inbred redneck can't deny that Hakeem Olajuwon is Nigerian, his name and accent just scream it. And yet he played for Team USA, and was accepted by the American public. Or less well known is the fact that Patrick Ewing was originally Bahamanian. (Tim Duncan doesn't count, btw, since Virgin Islanders have US citizenship).

Yah Hakeem Olajuwon is Nigerian, Ewing is Jamaican, Duncan is Virgin Island, Rolando Blackman is Panama. I mentioned they've US Citizens...

JET007
08-08-2007, 06:49 AM
Well...I don't want to argue with you, I guess we all can have our different opinions and still get along. I know that if other teams are naturalizing players in the next Asian Championships that eventually China will do the same. I just hope that if any of us makes it to the next level of international play, (I mean the World Championships), that the other countries don't lose respect for us that we do such a thing. I mean, I am an American, and if I thought of such a thing watching the FIBA-ASIA Championships, then I know that some people of other countries might think the same thing.

I mean, I hate to tell you this, since I know that you are all here on this message board for a different reason, but rankings are junk. It doesn't matter if you are 1st--which Lebanon might be at the end of this Asian Championships or 16th, like the United Arab Emirates, we are all equal. When judging someone, things all depend upon the person as an individual anyway.

And I would like to apologize for the behavior of some of my fellow Chinese posters here, I think that some of their responses were too much. I mean, when I read some of their responses to what some of the supporters of the RP National Team said, I was cringing that they actually said some of the stuff that they actually said to you guys. I think somne of them care about this stuff too much.
oh...that fatpanda guy...:rolleyes: :p
good essay man... i think they should ban fully foreign players, but not half-blood players...

JET007
08-08-2007, 06:51 AM
FIBA is the law of European ballers...
exactly! its french name also! no wonder why they always win, south americans also!

JET007
08-08-2007, 06:52 AM
What if the baby was born on the sea or by air :rolleyes:
HAHAHA!!! LOL ka talaga!:D
trans: very funny:D

sorry for triple post...

LeroyC33
08-08-2007, 10:15 AM
You either have a short memory or a highly selective one. The US HAS used naturalized players, and they've been acknowledged as such. Even the most inbred redneck can't deny that Hakeem Olajuwon is Nigerian, his name and accent just scream it. And yet he played for Team USA, and was accepted by the American public. Or less well known is the fact that Patrick Ewing was originally Bahamanian. (Tim Duncan doesn't count, btw, since Virgin Islanders have US citizenship).

Whoops! You're right, I'm sorry, I actually did not know that before you mentioned it. I actually thought that when Dinamita meationed naturalized players on the Team USA Team, that he was talking about slavery when he said that, and I misunderstaood what he truly meant. Now I agree with Dinamita in his original post, and I think that the standard should be applied equally to everyone, and that Team USA has no right to use foreign-born naturalized players on their national basketball team either. But I stll believe that my original post was valid, and I believe that naturalized players should not be used in any FIBA-sanctioned basketball tournament, because it tends to shift the odds in another teams favor, especially if the naturalized player is very good, and so I believe that FIBA should eliminate that rule from the rulebook, and should only allow contries to compete with whoever was genuinely born in their own country and/or who grew up in their own country.

Holy Hand Grenade
08-08-2007, 04:15 PM
So, speaking purely hypothetically, you'd be against it if Michael Chang (in his prime) offered to play for China in the Davis Cup? Or if Michelle Kwan offered to skate under the Chinese flag for the Winter Olympics?

joel23
08-08-2007, 04:22 PM
So, speaking purely hypothetically, you'd be against it if Michael Chang (in his prime) offered to play for China in the Davis Cup? Or if Michelle Kwan offered to skate under the Chinese flag for the Winter Olympics?

Michael Chang and Michelle Kwan are both US Citizens. Both are Chinese blood but they're long lived in US. I remember Michael Chang lost to Filipino blood but long lived in US too Cecil Mamiit in Sybase Open. But Chang and Kwan cannot transfer to Chinese flag because the rule is play for only one country only there.

Holy Hand Grenade
08-08-2007, 04:52 PM
^
Dude, kaya nga "hypothecially."

LeroyC33
08-08-2007, 08:31 PM
So, speaking purely hypothetically, you'd be against it if Michael Chang (in his prime) offered to play for China in the Davis Cup? Or if Michelle Kwan offered to skate under the Chinese flag for the Winter Olympics?

Well, yeah, I think that I'd be against it if Michael Chang in his prime offered to play for China in the Davis Cup, and if Michelle Kwan offered to skate under the Chinese flag for the Winter Olympics, because in my opinion, they are not native-born Chinese, they are Chinese Americans, and China must learn to stand and win on its own, with its own athletes. I'm not in favor of a double-standard, and I think that the rules should be enforced equally on everyone all across the board.

alermac
08-09-2007, 07:54 AM
We would all like to see Leroy's idea come true, but there is one problem: if FIBA decides to ban naturalized players from NT's, they would get sued by many players and all kinds of human-rights organizations because of discrimination, since naturalized citizens have the same rights as native citizens.

Ishmael
09-08-2008, 12:31 PM
FIBA ASIA suck! Game is Fixed!

I still remember Philippines V Iran! That game is Fixed! That referee is a good friend of iranian coach!

I will not respect FIBA! shame on you FIBA!

woah, hold on their cowboy, we lost that game fair and square, you make us pinoys sound like conspiracy theorists, yes, may be the Amercians didnt land on the moon, JFK was assassinated by Aliens and Richard Nixon is an alien...

Ishmael
09-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Well, yeah, I think that I'd be against it if Michael Chang in his prime offered to play for China in the Davis Cup, and if Michelle Kwan offered to skate under the Chinese flag for the Winter Olympics, because in my opinion, they are not native-born Chinese, they are Chinese Americans, and China must learn to stand and win on its own, with its own athletes. I'm not in favor of a double-standard, and I think that the rules should be enforced equally on everyone all across the board.

what is your opinion of the Chinese Equestrian team? I believe they were half British or Britons and half Chinese and most live in the UK.

Sakamoto
09-08-2008, 02:54 PM
woah, hold on their cowboy, we lost that game fair and square, you make us pinoys sound like conspiracy theorists, yes, may be the Amercians didnt land on the moon, JFK was assassinated by Aliens and Richard Nixon is an alien...
what are you talking about?You said " we lost fair and square". What was discussing is the the 2007 FIBA ASIA championships not the just concluded FIBA ASIA youth championships.

b3lowzro
09-08-2008, 03:35 PM
lets close this thread again, its already dead and majority of the postewrs here have already moved on

Ishmael
09-09-2008, 12:58 AM
what are you talking about?You said " we lost fair and square". What was being discussed is the the 2007 FIBA ASIA championships and not the just concluded FIBA ASIA youth championships.

Yes we did, I watched the game and we did lose fair and square. it is my opinion and I see it as it is. The Iranian team improved game to game hence their lose to Lebanon was turned into victory in the finals.

By the way corrected your syntax and grammar.

nardy
09-15-2008, 09:54 AM
if having half-breds is a crime..then RP NT is guilty..LOLZ :D

well I guess the flames already died down on this thread.. :rolleyes:

Bro we could not help it as the great majority of the Philippine population is half-breds. We are more open to marriage to different nationalities. We are not particular into ethnic divisions as we can interact with anybody. Caloy Loyzaga has Spanish blood. Sonny Jaworski has Polish blood. Freddie Webb has American blood. Samboy Lim has Chinese blood. ..... Asi Taulava has Tongan blood. Hehehe Filipinos are everywhere.