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PHILIPeurobasket
03-16-2007, 04:45 AM
I see also that another very good game play Rashid Atkins. I read yesterday interview with him, and Atkins said that not only strong European team want see him in they roster - so he have good chances to play in better then Prokom Euroleague team... But I hope that he will stay in Poland, because Polish Bball Federation want give him Polish citizenship, and then he will be play with Polish NT in Spain 2007 :)

Sarevok
03-16-2007, 07:46 AM
But I hope that he will stay in Poland, because Polish Bball Federation want give him Polish citizenship, and then he will be play with Polish NT in Spain 2007 :)

That is really bad thing... for NT should play Polish players and not some "payed" USA players. I could never watch my national team if they bring some foreigners to play for us :rolleyes:
Euroleague teams are crowded with foreign players, we dont need it in national teams too.

PHILIPeurobasket
03-16-2007, 09:25 AM
That is really bad thing... for NT should play Polish players and not some "payed" USA players. I could never watch my national team if they bring some foreigners to play for us :rolleyes:
Euroleague teams are crowded with foreign players, we dont need it in national teams too.

yes I know that, but Polish Ball Federation said that Polish NT have problems with players on guard position ... Polish citizenship have now Lewis Lofton, Jeff Nordgaard, Eric Elliott and some other players. But remember that only one player with Polish citizenship can play in NT game ....:rolleyes:

OK lets talk again about Euroleague Day 5 :rolleyes:

Jan van Grabski
03-16-2007, 09:31 AM
But remember that only one player with Polish citizenship can play in NT game ....:rolleyes:


muhahahah ....funny, indeed :rolleyes:


whatever philip is saying, i dont think that Polish Basketball federation will be going to use foreigners in the NT. Or at least i hope so.....they are not so desperate after all.

PHILIPeurobasket
03-16-2007, 10:12 AM
whatever philip is saying, i dont think that Polish Basketball federation will be going to use foreigners in the NT. Or at least i hope so.....they are not so desperate after all.

And I know that in Spain will be play Jeff Nordgaard or Rashid Atkins...

FRANKY 13
03-16-2007, 10:21 AM
The only player that greece naturalized is tsakalidis and he doesn t even play for the national team since we understood our mistake and dont call him.
Greece decided to not naturalize players like stojakovic, and believe me it was really easy to do so.

As far as spain and italy. Italy naturalized some players( fucka, mayers) and as far as spain is concerned, well I don t remember any player playing fro the spanish national team, that isn t spanish. And even if there is one, we nannot compare this situation( which is an exception) with what some countries do, where practically half of the players are naturalized. Ex-yougoslavian countries for example systematically naturalize all the players thay can( dommercant, stak, castle...) even if they re not that special and have nothing to do with the contry.
At least in tsakalide s case, greece was the reason why he played and learned basketball in the first place.

CG
03-16-2007, 11:39 AM
That is really bad thing... for NT should play Polish players and not some "payed" USA players. I could never watch my national team if they bring some foreigners to play for us :rolleyes:
Euroleague teams are crowded with foreign players, we dont need it in national teams too.


i totally agree.Phillip its not a nice thing for your NT.I think Atkins is not something special too...i was in OAKA and i didnt see anything special from him.Just some extraggerated shots and tries.

Sarevok
03-16-2007, 12:36 PM
Ex-yougoslavian countries for example systematically naturalize all the players thay can( dommercant, stak, castle...) even if they re not that special and have nothing to do with the contry.


Which ex-Yugoslavian countries? Serbia and Croatia never naturalized any player. And those two countries are 75% of ex-Yugoslavia. As far as I recall only Bosnia naturalized foreign players, and the only reason for that is very messy situation in that country. I am sure they will not naturalize anything as soon as things get better.
Oh yes, Slovenia get McDonald too, I disagree with their move, and hope they will avoid similar things in future. So, to summarize, from five ex-Yu countries (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Macedonia...not counting Montenegro cause they are new) only Bosnia naturalized two foreigners, and Slovenia one, and you say ex-Yu countries systematically naturalize all they can? :confused:

KokkinosVasilias
03-16-2007, 01:03 PM
There is Stack playing for FYROM but actually Aris was the one who made him naturalized like they did with Wilkinson this year

i dont think that if Greece naturalized Peja would be a bad thing,

NT is not only about the nationality but about "creating" players, since Peja came to Greece young (15-16) and he learned to play basketball in a professional level in Greece it would be ok for him to play in Greek NT,

Just like US did with Hakeem,
he learned to play there, so he can play for them...
or Parker playing for France...

cases like Holden playing for Russia etc. that should be avoided...

NT teams represent the production of athletes of each country,

i mean if someone comes with his family to your country at the age of 2 he shouldnt play for your NT even if he feels its his country?

what if he was born to your country by immigrants? thats ok?

if his parents are of different nationality, father is spanish, mother is english, he was born is Italy, and they moved to France when he was 10 year old and he learnt bball there,
for which NT he should play?
i guess for any of the 4 of them

Sarevok
03-16-2007, 01:23 PM
There is Stack playing for FYROM but actually Aris was the one who made him naturalized like they did with Wilkinson this year

i dont think that if Greece naturalized Peja would be a bad thing,

NT is not only about the nationality but about "creating" players, since Peja came to Greece young (15-16) and he learned to play basketball in a professional level in Greece it would be ok for him to play in Greek NT,

Just like US did with Hakeem,
he learned to play there, so he can play for them...
or Parker playing for France...

cases like Holden playing for Russia etc. that should be avoided...

NT teams represent the production of athletes of each country,

i mean if someone comes with his family to your country at the age of 2 he shouldnt play for your NT even if he feels its his country?

what if he was born to your country by immigrants? thats ok?

I mostly agree with you. But Stojakovic was already great potential when he was playing as 16 year old in Red Star first team. I agree that it is ok for very young kids (that came to some country before they started playing basketball) to play for that country, but it is not ok when you bring some talented kid because of his basketball potential and then make him domestic player. It is dangerous cause rich countries can easily exploit that.
I am sorry I ruined this thread with offtopic :)

ziv
03-16-2007, 01:39 PM
the basic reason we don't see too much of it happens in rich countries got something to do with the fact that most of it are democracies who take their naturlizations and constitutional law very seriously. we do see some of it in rich but non democracies. anyway - that's the core issue here. this problem isn't rising too much in EU members and non EU members which have strong democrtic structure. the problem in BIH or FYROM isn't the fact they are easy to naturlize players - it's just a symptum for the problem and to tell you the truth - i think i'll choose to stick with my democracy (well, mine has some problems...)

Buducnost PG
03-16-2007, 03:56 PM
Which ex-Yugoslavian countries? Serbia and Croatia never naturalized any player. And those two countries are 75% of ex-Yugoslavia. As far as I recall only Bosnia naturalized foreign players, and the only reason for that is very messy situation in that country. I am sure they will not naturalize anything as soon as things get better.
Oh yes, Slovenia get McDonald too, I disagree with their move, and hope they will avoid similar things in future. So, to summarize, from five ex-Yu countries (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Macedonia...not counting Montenegro cause they are new) only Bosnia naturalized two foreigners, and Slovenia one, and you say ex-Yu countries systematically naturalize all they can? :confused:

What is about Damir Mulaomerovic which is bosnian from BIH and played for Croatia? So he is also a foreigner.

T.W.Is.M.
03-16-2007, 06:48 PM
Which ex-Yugoslavian countries? Serbia and Croatia never naturalized any player. And those two countries are 75% of ex-Yugoslavia. As far as I recall only Bosnia naturalized foreign players, and the only reason for that is very messy situation in that country. I am sure they will not naturalize anything as soon as things get better.
Oh yes, Slovenia get McDonald too, I disagree with their move, and hope they will avoid similar things in future. So, to summarize, from five ex-Yu countries (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Macedonia...not counting Montenegro cause they are new) only Bosnia naturalized two foreigners, and Slovenia one, and you say ex-Yu countries systematically naturalize all they can? :confused:

Sorry 2 say sth non-related 2 bball, but there is no country called Macedonia.I know everybody calls them like that, I'm 100% sure u didn't do it 2 provoke, but I would like them b referred as FYROM.Thanks:)

Sarevok
03-16-2007, 06:52 PM
What is about Damir Mulaomerovic which is bosnian from BIH and played for Croatia? So he is also a foreigner.

You cannot call him foreigner in Croatia because after fall of ex-Yu anyone had right to go on whatever side he wanted. When some country fall apart, individuals cannot be foreigners whatever side they choose.

Sarevok
03-16-2007, 06:56 PM
Sorry 2 say sth non-related 2 bball, but there is no country called Macedonia.I know everybody calls them like that, I'm 100% sure u didn't do it 2 provoke, but I would like them b referred as FYROM.Thanks:)

Sorry, my intention wasnt to provoke anyone. I called them that way because I am from ex-Yu, and because Macedonia was one of our republics ... it is hard to change old habits and start to call them different ;)
I will try to pay attention in future.

FRANKY 13
03-16-2007, 08:19 PM
Sarevok I have to admitt that what I said sounded like generalizing.
of course I don t talk about croatia or serbia, they have all the talent they want, they don t need to naturalize some mediocre american players in order to be good teams.

I was reffering mainly to bosnia and Fyrom.

T.W.Is.M.
03-16-2007, 08:31 PM
Sorry, my intention wasnt to provoke anyone. I called them that way because I am from ex-Yu, and because Macedonia was one of our republics ... it is hard to change old habits and start to call them different ;)
I will try to pay attention in future.

As I wrote above I know u didn't do anything on purpose, I just wanted 2 make my point moer clear:)
To return to bball, giving out ex-Yugoslavian passports(FYROM passports that's the most correct) is a "privilege" of Aris.In Greece we know who is responsible 4 this.FYROM just profits from this and calls up players that have nothing 2 do with the country.There was a rumor this year that Massey would get a european passport(Slovakian probably) so that Aris would free a non-european spot in the roster.

qiangdade
03-16-2007, 10:47 PM
i dont think that if Greece naturalized Peja would be a bad thing,

NT is not only about the nationality but about "creating" players, since Peja came to Greece young (15-16) and he learned to play basketball in a professional level in Greece it would be ok for him to play in Greek NT,



Peja is a tricky case. He was repeatedly saying that he wanted to play for the greek NT before he was chosen for the yugoslavian NT. He was repeatedly ignored since the policy back then was, no naturalized players in the greek NT. Couple of years later Tsakalidis played for Greece

Ps: Peja even served in the greek army couple of years ago, married a greek woman, his family and his home is in Thessaloniki...

Sarevok
03-16-2007, 11:10 PM
Ps: Peja even served in the greek army couple of years ago

He served Greek army because it is much better option than to serve army in Serbia. Trust me :D
But you are right, he is very connected to Greece. I wouldnt mind if he decide to play for Greece in following competitions. I like Greece, and not just me...it is wide known that people in Serbia like Greece very much...you should watch celebration on Belgrade streets when Greece won Euro 2004 in football ;)

turkishpower
03-17-2007, 04:00 AM
Who the hell did Macedonia neutralize? Bosnia and Macedonia are two weak basketball countries, and I don't believe the Serbs and Croats really need to neutralize players for success. They both always produce great great players. Greece and Turkey neutralizes. (Tsakalidis and Ilyasova) Other than that, I don't know any other team :confused:
What other NT's in Europe neutralize?

PHILIPeurobasket
03-17-2007, 04:42 AM
We talk about naturalised players in national teams and you must know that Polish federation send also questions to Andrew Wisniewski about Polish citizenhip - Wisniewski have Polish roots, because his grandmother live in Poland... :rolleyes:
Wisniewski said "NO", and he will be not new Polish NT player

adebisi
03-17-2007, 08:15 AM
What other NT's in Europe neutralize?
Russia with J.R.Holden :rolleyes:

MikeMaccabiFan
03-17-2007, 08:46 AM
Who the hell did Macedonia neutralize? Bosnia and Macedonia are two weak basketball countries, and I don't believe the Serbs and Croats really need to neutralize players for success. They both always produce great great players. Greece and Turkey neutralizes. (Tsakalidis and Ilyasova) Other than that, I don't know any other team :confused:
What other NT's in Europe neutralize?

I guess you meant naturalize (we wouldn't want neutralize anyone:p)
And coming to mind, it's mainly Russia (J.R. Holden) , Israel (long line of naturalized players - today it's Jamie Arnold, Derk Sharp before him).
There are two ways to get Israeli citizenship - being Jew (then you get your citizenship immediately - David Bluthental, Tamir Goodman, Hanan Kolman, Jeff Kent are good examples), or marry an Israeli/Jewish woman (Jamie and Derek, and many others all over ) - than it takes few years. Rules for marriages are pretty tough, not that they can't be bent a bit... Usually it's 5-7 years to get citizenship here...

KokkinosVasilias
03-17-2007, 11:46 AM
Who the hell did Macedonia neutralize?


Stack and Wilkinson, but it was Aris that wanted naturaziled,
Stack is already playing for their NT, i guess sooner or later Wilkinson will play too

Big Lebowski
03-17-2007, 12:25 PM
Borat wouldn't be OT in this discussion too.

Greece had in the past Stergakos (Dave Nelson) in the NT and Tsakalidis (Ledkov). In the future it will be possible to see Dusan Sakota, Vladimir Jankovic, but both grew in Greece (the same could happen with Milosevic, despite the fact he's not at all an international player).

FYROM: Stack (Stik...), Wilkinson and the poor Kenyon Jones (Dzons...).

BiH: Domercant.

Russia: Holden.

Turkey: Turkcan (Jehovic, SRB), Turkoglu (Ibrahimovic, MGR), Pars (Pascanovic, CRO), Sarica (BIH), Ilyasova (UZB, born in 1984... not in 1987). It's great to see how Turks say that Turkcan's birthplace is... Istanbul (probably suburb of Novi Pazar, SRB).

Italy: Fucka (SLO), Radulovic (Serb from CRO), Rocca (USA, Italian roots), Calabria (USA, Italian roots), Damiao (who's probably older than Dikembe Mutombo). Myers always suffers for a lot of ignorance around him: he's son of an English man and an Italian woman. He could make a choice betweeb England-GBR or Italy. What was better for him? Dan Gay, who married an Italian woman, played with the ITA NT too. Other neutralized (...) players were Mike Sylvester (played in Moscow 80), Mark Campanaro and Mike D'Antoni (both American with Italian roots).

Germany: ok... let's change subject.

Spain: they played with Biriukov (USSR) in the past. I can remember Espinosa-Johnson too, and maybe Toni Smith.

France: many coming from colonies. Tony Parker is not even French, but he grew in France and played for the INSEP.

Slovenia: I'm not sure, but they probably had in the NT Arriel Mc Donald.

Bulgaria: Priest Lauderdale?

Levenspiel
03-17-2007, 12:42 PM
Turkey: Turkcan (Jehovic, SRB), Turkoglu (Ibrahimovic, MGR), Pars (Pascanovic, CRO), Sarica (BIH), Ilyasova (UZB, born in 1984... not in 1987). It's great to see how Turks say that Turkcan's birthplace is... Istanbul (probably suburb of Novi Pazar, SRB).
Turkoglu and Sarica were born and have been grown up in Turkey. How can they be naturalized?
Mirsad Turkcan, Asım Pars, Nedim Dal, Rasim Başak, Zaza Enden (none is playing for the NT now; and, Mirsad excluded, all were just mediocre players) were former imports. Ilyasova and Kuqo are still playing with the Turkey jersey now.



Spain: they played with Biriukov (USSR) in the past. I can remember Espinosa-Johnson too, and maybe Toni Smith.
I remember Chuck Kornegay, and one more black American.



Slovenia: I'm not sure, but they probably had in the NT Arriel Mc Donald.
As far as I know they have/had some talented Bosnian guys. and Becirovic is a similar case to Mulaomerovic I guess.

ziv
03-17-2007, 12:44 PM
what about Nikos Galis?

Victorious
03-17-2007, 12:57 PM
what about Nikos Galis?

Son of an immigrant family from Rhodes. Born in New Jersey.

What about him?

ziv
03-17-2007, 01:00 PM
do you consider him to be naturlise?
anyway - i find this entire disscussion to be pointless and i said it a page ago.

T.W.Is.M.
03-17-2007, 01:01 PM
what about Nikos Galis?

Galis is greek but grew up in the US, where he stayed there until the age of 22.His name is also greek, I don't think we can put him in this category.
Another american player used by Spain was Mike Smith, former player of Joventut(EL champion in 1994 playing with an american nationality) and Real Madrid.

elaj
03-17-2007, 01:16 PM
As far as I know they have/had some talented Bosnian guys. and Becirovic is a similar case to Mulaomerovic I guess.
Sani Bečirovič was born and raised here in Slovenia - he has just Slovenian passport. His mother is Slovenian while his father Mehmed came to Slovenia about 20 years ago from BiH.

The last player Slovenia naturalized was Emir Preldzić (huge talent) from BiH (he spent already few years playing here in Slovenia), that happened last summer. He didn't get the invitation from the BiH federation to play for their selections so he decided to play for Slovenian youth national team selections.

While in the past we had Arriel McDonald (played few games), Jurica Golemac (came to Slovenia from Croatia as a teenager scouted by Olimpija), Stipe Modrić (came to Slovenia from Croatia as a teenager scouted by Olimpija - he is married to Slovenian girl as I know?), Hasan Rizvić (came to Slovenia from BiH scouted by KK Zlatorog), Ivica Jurković (came to Slovenia from BiH during the war as I recall - he is married to Slovenian girl as I know?) and Aleksander Čapin (came to Slovenia from Serbia, scouted by Krka, native he is from BiH).

Anyway, the situation with ex-yu countries are different than other (leaving out the case with Domercant and Stick, Wilkinson etc. from FYROM and BiH).

Probably there are few other players who hold Slovenian passport from ex-yu countries. It's not a big deal in my opinion.

Ofcourse there are also few other foreign players who hold Slovenian passport (and ofcourse don't play for NT) like Vladimir Boisa (Georgia), Vlado Ilievski (FYROM) who are married with Slovenian girls. That takes years here in Slovenia because foregin people who get married with Slovenians need to forfill tons of bureaucracical things.

rikhardur
03-17-2007, 01:20 PM
Clifford Luyk and Wayne Brabender also played for the Spanish NT.

ziv
03-17-2007, 01:26 PM
and johnny rogers too.

rikhardur
03-17-2007, 01:26 PM
and johnny rogers too.
I was about to add him :D

turkishpower
03-17-2007, 02:30 PM
Borat wouldn't be OT in this discussion too.

Turkey: Turkcan (Jehovic, SRB), Turkoglu (Ibrahimovic, MGR), Pars (Pascanovic, CRO), Sarica (BIH), Ilyasova (UZB, born in 1984... not in 1987). It's great to see how Turks say that Turkcan's birthplace is... Istanbul (probably suburb of Novi Pazar, SRB).

What the hell dude? What are Turkoglu(what does MGR mean??) and Sarica doing there? What is your source on saying they are naturalized? They are both born in Turkey.
I thought, Asim Pars was Bosnian :confused:
How do you know for sure that Ilyasova is 84 born? I'm waiting for you to prove your ideas about Turkoglu-Sarica and Ilyasova topics.

Europeans think it is naturalization whenever a European background player plays for Turkey.(Turkoglu, Okur, Sarica etc...) [/QUOTE]



Borat wouldn't be OT in this discussion too.

Greece had in the past Stergakos (Dave Nelson) in the NT and Tsakalidis (Ledkov). In the future it will be possible to see Dusan Sakota, Vladimir Jankovic, but both grew in Greece (the same could happen with Milosevic, despite the fact he's not at all an international player).

FYROM: Stack (Stik...), Wilkinson and the poor Kenyon Jones (Dzons...).

BiH: Domercant.

Russia: Holden.

Italy: Fucka (SLO), Radulovic (Serb from CRO), Rocca (USA, Italian roots), Calabria (USA, Italian roots), Damiao (who's probably older than Dikembe Mutombo). Myers always suffers for a lot of ignorance around him: he's son of an English man and an Italian woman. He could make a choice betweeb England-GBR or Italy. What was better for him? Dan Gay, who married an Italian woman, played with the ITA NT too. Other neutralized (...) players were Mike Sylvester (played in Moscow 80), Mark Campanaro and Mike D'Antoni (both American with Italian roots).

Germany: ok... let's change subject.

Spain: they played with Biriukov (USSR) in the past. I can remember Espinosa-Johnson too, and maybe Toni Smith.

France: many coming from colonies. Tony Parker is not even French, but he grew in France and played for the INSEP.

Slovenia: I'm not sure, but they probably had in the NT Arriel Mc Donald.

Bulgaria: Priest Lauderdale?

Good compilation of naturalized players here. I don't know if all are right but good effort :)

Levenspiel
03-17-2007, 03:04 PM
I think MGR means Montenegro.

We made this same discussion a few times in the past, so I agree it's a bit pointless now.

MikeMaccabiFan
03-17-2007, 05:04 PM
Jose Biriukov was repatriated, not naturalized - his mother is Spanish - left as child after civil war at the end of 30s... Spanish nationals staying in USSR were given possibility to repatriate after death of Franco.

Sarevok
03-17-2007, 05:54 PM
Germany? Altough I am not sure if their players are naturalised or they learn basketball in Germany?

Sarevok
03-17-2007, 05:57 PM
Am I going crazy or some posts from this thread disapeared? Now my above post is looking very stupid :D

PHILIPeurobasket
03-17-2007, 06:01 PM
Poland: Jeff Nordgaard, Eric Elliott, Lewis Lofton, Patrick Okafor ... very close for Polish citizenship is Michael Ansley, Rashid Atkins, Brandun Hughes and some others players ...

Buducnost PG
03-17-2007, 06:12 PM
Germany? Altough I am not sure if their players are naturalised or they learn basketball in Germany?

The most of them were born in Germany or came to Germany as kids and learn to play baksetball in Germany. Only one is naturalised and that is Demond Green now.

If a player play for another country we have to look how it comes. I wouldn´t say Calabria, Rocca, Galis and so on are naturalised. They have italian and greek roots so why not play for the countries. Also the most of the German players i wouldn´t consieder as naturalised, because they speak perfect german, grow up her and learn to play basektball here.

For me are naturailsed players Mirsad Jahovic, J.R. Holden, Damir Mulaomerovic (he is not croatian and had nothing to do with this country before), Ersan Ilyasova, Ermal Kuqo and other wich only get the passport to help the country in basketball and if they wouldn´t be talented players they could only dream about turkish or russian passport. Also players which came to a country with 16 to play basketball in a foreign club and then play for the nationalteam of this country are for me naturalised players like in the cases of Emir Preldzic and Ilyasova.

Pija_Olimp
03-17-2007, 06:27 PM
Also players which came to a country with 16 to play basketball in a foreign club and then play for the nationalteam of this country are for me naturalised players like in the cases of Emir Preldzic and Ilyasova.
Yes, absolutely. And so are they also for FIBA. ;)

Pija_Olimp
03-17-2007, 06:59 PM
Talking about....

... Arriel McDonald. He got the Slovene chitizenship because Olimpija wanted to make a free spot for another foreigner. I remember that clearly. Playing for the NT would be a bonus, but not so important. I remember he got the approval from the national assembly together with three other outstanding persons, who were important for Slovene nation... one of them was Ildar Rahmatuljin, whom our ice hockey national team desperately needed. :D McDonald didn't play many games. I remember he participated in a few qualifications games, but later he didn't join the team in the EC. After that he always refused to join. Nowadays nobody remembers him. Btw, where is he?

... Carlton Myers. Lebowski told us all. I'd just like to add, that if you look Carlton into his face and ignore his dark colour, you can see a typical southern Italian face. Btw, wasn't he born in Jamaica?

... Gregor Fučka. Well, his naturalization was something really special. A great beaurocratic win. As I read long time ago he got the Italian citizenship after his mother who got it after her husband, who was... still is? ... an Italian citizen. Ok, Gregor is ethnically Slovene, but his father was a member of the Slovene autochtone minority in Italy before he moved to those days Yugoslavia. Complicated, isn't it? Anyway, Gregor made a huge mistake, which will never be neither forgotten nor forgiven by Green Dragons.


I agree with Elaj.

Just...

Ivica Jurković (came to Slovenia from BiH during the war as I recall - he is married to Slovenian girl as I know?) and Aleksander Čapin (came to Slovenia from Serbia, scouted by Krka, native he is from BiH).
Jurković's wife doesn't look Slovene to me.
And Čapin is actually Ćapin. ;) I remember how angry he was because he dropped out from the NT two years ago.



Probably there are few other players who hold Slovenian passport from ex-yu countries. It's not a big deal in my opinion.
Honestly I don't like them to play for our NT. I have no problems if they get the citizenship because this makes their life easier, but here all my simpathy ends.


Ofcourse there are also few other foreign players who hold Slovenian passport (and ofcourse don't play for NT) like Vladimir Boisa (Georgia), Vlado Ilievski (FYROM) who are married with Slovenian girls. That takes years here in Slovenia because foregin people who get married with Slovenians need to forfill tons of bureaucracical things.
Have you forgotten Vladimer Stepania?
In Ilievski's case his father-in-law helped a lot. Boisa didn't have such a good lobist and adviser, but at the end he succedded as well. Both of them needed our country's documents to make better working contracts in the EU, what would be much more difficult with their original passports. Let's not be naive.

Sarevok
03-17-2007, 08:14 PM
@BuducnostPG
Damir Mulaomerovic is born in Yugoslavia, and Croatia was part of that country when he was born. Explain why do you think he had to choose Bosnia over Croatia when Yugoslavia fall apart? There is so many Bosniaks that decided to choose Croatian citizenship when war in ex-Yu started, and that was their right. You said foreign player that play for Germany and they is living whole life in Germany is ok to play for their national team. I agree. But why Damir shouldnt play for Croatia when he is living in same country as any other Croat for whole his life?

Buducnost PG
03-17-2007, 08:24 PM
@BuducnostPG
Damir Mulaomerovic is born in Yugoslavia, and Croatia was part of that country when he was born. Explain why do you think he had to choose Bosnia over Croatia when Yugoslavia fall apart? There is so many Bosniaks that decided to choose Croatian citizenship when war in ex-Yu started, and that was their right. You said foreign player that play for Germany and they is living whole life in Germany is ok to play for their national team. I agree. But why Damir shouldnt play for Croatia when he is living in same country as any other Croat for whole his life?

Because of the war in bosnia. They wanted their independenc and many bosnian-muslims died in the war. And now a player from this country which was in war with serbia and croatia go and play for croatia. Would you play for croatia as serb from serbia? And yes it was yugoslavia but 6 republics and bosnian-muslim from Tzula has to play for croatia. That´s only my opinion.

MikeMaccabiFan
03-17-2007, 08:41 PM
... Arriel McDonald. .... Btw, where is he?

He's playing for Girona in Spain - they just got to FIBA EuroCup F4 last week.

Sarevok
03-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Because of the war in bosnia. They wanted their independenc and many bosnian-muslims died in the war. And now a player from this country which was in war with serbia and croatia go and play for croatia. Would you play for croatia as serb from serbia? And yes it was yugoslavia but 6 republics and bosnian-muslim from Tzula has to play for croatia. That´s only my opinion.

But that was his choice, you dont know what he is feeling. Ex-Yu has specific situation, and you cant call it naturalization. Now when Montenegro and Serbia are two countries, I guess that many Serbs will play for Montenegro national teams (in all sports) in future and vice versa. Are we going to call it naturalisation too? It will be problem, especially because it is very hard to separate who is Serb and who is Montenegrian (if I spelled this right) due to a lot of mixing between our people in last 1000 years ;)

Czarkazem13
03-18-2007, 12:03 AM
the basic reason we don't see too much of it happens in rich countries got something to do with the fact that most of it are democracies who take their naturlizations and constitutional law very seriously. we do see some of it in rich but non democracies. anyway - that's the core issue here. this problem isn't rising too much in EU members and non EU members which have strong democrtic structure. the problem in BIH or FYROM isn't the fact they are easy to naturlize players - it's just a symptum for the problem and to tell you the truth - i think i'll choose to stick with my democracy (well, mine has some problems...)

I know I'm anal, but there are NO democracies (just like there has never been a communist government either). They are republics (though, aka representative democracies).

Peace.

PHILIPeurobasket
03-18-2007, 05:06 AM
And what for example with Andrew Wisniewski ? He have Polish surname, he has grandmother in Poland, and he can play for Polish NT but he said NO - why :confused:

ziv
03-18-2007, 07:17 AM
that's similar to andrew bogut situation (i think he wouldn't have get much playing time in croatia).

robbe
03-18-2007, 08:36 AM
Yepp, none of Germanys players were naturalized, except Shawn Bradley :rolleyes: (played for Germany in Turkey '01) and Julian Sensley :rolleyes: (was cut by bauermann a few days before the WC 2006) . I didn't like what the German basketball federation did there.
The rest of the German roster just represents a more and more multicultural society here. You can see that in football/soccer too.

elaj
03-18-2007, 09:16 AM
And what for example with Andrew Wisniewski ? He have Polish surname, he has grandmother in Poland, and he can play for Polish NT but he said NO - why :confused:
Because he has nothing to do with Poland except having roots from there.:rolleyes:

PHILIPeurobasket
03-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Because he has nothing to do with Poland except having roots from there.:rolleyes:

Ok, but if you have Polish roots you can play in Polish NT without any problems!
For example Lukas Podolski (from German football NT) have Polish roots but he play for Germany - and this is stupid think for me. His parents born in Poland...

Marius123
03-18-2007, 12:57 PM
BiH: Domercant.

Add Terrel Castle to that, he played for Bosnia-Herzegovina in Eurobasket 2003.

I can also vaguely remember that Bosnian NT had a naturalised Serb (they had to choose which of the players to use in Eurobaskets, selecting among Castle, Domercant and that Serbian guy... whose name escapes me... ).

Marius123
03-18-2007, 12:59 PM
Turkey: Turkcan (Jehovic, SRB), Turkoglu (Ibrahimovic, MGR), Pars (Pascanovic, CRO), Sarica (BIH), Ilyasova (UZB, born in 1984... not in 1987). It's great to see how Turks say that Turkcan's birthplace is... Istanbul (probably suburb of Novi Pazar, SRB).

How old was Ermal Kuqo when he came to Fenerbahçe junior team?

Joško Poljak Fan
03-18-2007, 01:01 PM
You probably meant Saša Vasiljević?

The way Rajan Stik got renamed in Fyrom so should be Domercant and Castle into Henry Bosanac and Terry Bosanac :D

Marius123
03-18-2007, 01:14 PM
Another question, to Lithuanian members... Anyone knows when Mikhailo Anisimov came from Ukraine to learn basketball in Lithuania?

Now he's a Lithuanian citizen, having taken part in our junior NTs.

I don't remember any other similar cases in Lithuania.

Marius123
03-18-2007, 01:15 PM
You probably meant Saša Vasiljević?

Yes, exactly.

LuDux
03-18-2007, 01:24 PM
Another question, to Lithuanian members... Anyone knows when Mikhailo Anisimov came from Ukraine to learn basketball in Lithuania?

Now he's a Lithuanian citizen, having taken part in our junior NTs.

I don't remember any other similar cases in Lithuania.

13 years old

http://www.kaunodiena.lt/lt/?id=6&aid=39418

rikhardur
03-18-2007, 01:38 PM
So is it more correct to call him Michailas Anisimovas or Mikhailo Anisimov?

C02
03-18-2007, 01:43 PM
Joe Arlauckas has lithuanian roots, right ? I even think he was supposed to play for Lithuania at some point. So, I guess hi didn't ?

Marius123
03-18-2007, 02:12 PM
So is it more correct to call him Michailas Anisimovas or Mikhailo Anisimov?

I guess there can't be one "correct" answer here. It's the same case with many other people, who have Slavic roots. Our bass ace on the jazz scene - his name is of Ukrainian origin, "Леонид Шинкаренко" - would be transcribed into English "Leonid Shinkarenko" ... but the Lithuanian versions would be "Leonid Šinkarenko" ---> "Leonid Sinkarenko" or "Leonidas Šinkarenka" ---> "Leonidas Sinkarenka" ... The original Polish spelling of Lavrinovic brothers would be "Lawrynowicz" ... in very pure Lithuanian, they're "Lavrinovičius" ... meanwhile, in many cases in Lithuanian they're just "Lavrinovič", which brings the common spelling in English texts "Lavrinovic". Were history a bit different - they might play for Poland and the whole world would be writing "Lawrynowicz", without knowing anything about "Lavrinovic" ...

Don't know if it's an easy explanation. For us, living in this region, such things seem only natural. A Russian Козлов (English spelling: Kozlov) comes to Lithuania, settles here, his name becomes Kozlovas ... after some time, his grand-children Lithuanize even further and become Kazlauskas.

Buducnost PG
03-18-2007, 02:22 PM
Add Terrel Castle to that, he played for Bosnia-Herzegovina in Eurobasket 2003.

I can also vaguely remember that Bosnian NT had a naturalised Serb (they had to choose which of the players to use in Eurobaskets, selecting among Castle, Domercant and that Serbian guy... whose name escapes me... ).

I am not sure what is exactly with Vasiljevic. There was much trouble after he wasn´t allowed to play for bosnia as normal player. He is born in Osjek/now Croatia, but he said that his mother or grandmother was serbian from bosnia.

rikhardur
03-18-2007, 02:48 PM
I guess there can't be one "correct" answer here. It's the same case with many other people, who have Slavic roots. Our bass ace on the jazz scene - his name is of Ukrainian origin, "Леонид Шинкаренко" - would be transcribed into English "Leonid Shinkarenko" ... but the Lithuanian versions would be "Leonid Šinkarenko" ---> "Leonid Sinkarenko" or "Leonidas Šinkarenka" ---> "Leonidas Sinkarenka" ... The original Polish spelling of Lavrinovic brothers would be "Lawrynowicz" ... in very pure Lithuanian, they're "Lavrinovičius" ... meanwhile, in many cases in Lithuanian they're just "Lavrinovič", which brings the common spelling in English texts "Lavrinovic". Were history a bit different - they might play for Poland and the whole world would be writing "Lawrynowicz", without knowing anything about "Lavrinovic" ...

Don't know if it's an easy explanation. For us, living in this region, such things seem only natural. A Russian Козлов (English spelling: Kozlov) comes to Lithuania, settles here, his name becomes Kozlovas ... after some time, his grand-children Lithuanize even further and become Kazlauskas.
Thanks for the expanations Marius123. Interesting, I thought Kazlauskas was a "pure" Lith name, curious how the original name evolved. Well, I think I'll start calling him Anisimovas, since he's already a Lith ;)

PHILIPeurobasket
03-18-2007, 03:08 PM
The original Polish spelling of Lavrinovic brothers would be "Lawrynowicz" .

Yes, you have right and "Lawrynowicz" can be also a Polish surname - I check it in Wlockawek phone-numbers book and I see 2 people with surname "Lawrynowicz"

Marius123
03-18-2007, 03:09 PM
Interesting, I thought Kazlauskas was a "pure" Lith name, curious how the original name evolved.

Well, one might consider it pure Lithuanian name, I think. To the same extent, as the Christian names Jonas (John), Petras (Peter), Juozapas or Juozas (Joseph), Andrius (Andrew), etc.

The endings -auskas and -evičius were brought from Slavic languages several centuries ago, and many people's names were "improved" in this way - it doesn't have to be connected with their Slavic ethnic origin at all.

Some time ago, I saw somewhere that the most spread Lithuanian family name is "Stankevičius" (similar to Polish "Stankiewicz" ) ... meanwhile, another version exists of it - "Stankus". (Actually, in the period between the world wars, there was a Lithuanization wave, when people were dropping the "Slavic" endings, so many of today's "Stankus" might have originated in this way). "Kazlauskas" is a very common name as well.

ziv
03-18-2007, 03:14 PM
I am not sure what is exactly with Vasiljevic. There was much trouble after he wasn´t allowed to play for bosnia as normal player. He is born in Osjek/now Croatia, but he said that his mother or grandmother was serbian from bosnia.
before the 2005 EC he wasn't approved to play. it was about a week or so before the tournment started. afterward BIH appealed and the decision was reversed as he was part of the entire post-yugosalvia mass (basiclly it allowed each player to choose which NT he'll play for). last summer he did play for the NT as a full BIH citizen (alongside domercant).
btw - it should be mentioned here that fiba allows only one naturlised player (i.e. who got his citizenship after a certain age - i think it's 18) who didn't play for another national team - only is allowed to take part in the roster. that's regardless of the reason for his naturelization. funny to mention that this rule was applied due to (not so great) israeli player - Danni Got who was born in urugay (he's maccabi assistant coach today and David Blat's brother in law).

Buducnost PG
03-18-2007, 04:26 PM
before the 2005 EC he wasn't approved to play. it was about a week or so before the tournment started. afterward BIH appealed and the decision was reversed as he was part of the entire post-yugosalvia mass (basiclly it allowed each player to choose which NT he'll play for). last summer he did play for the NT as a full BIH citizen (alongside domercant).
btw - it should be mentioned here that fiba allows only one naturlised player (i.e. who got his citizenship after a certain age - i think it's 18) who didn't play for another national team - only is allowed to take part in the roster. that's regardless of the reason for his naturelization. funny to mention that this rule was applied due to (not so great) israeli player - Danni Got who was born in urugay (he's maccabi assistant coach today and David Blat's brother in law).

But how long it will be allowed that players from ex-yugoslavia can chose for whom they will playe and not to be mentioned as naturalised? Yugoslavia splitted in 91. So every player which was born up to 91 can decied for whom he will play or also players which were born in 92 and after that?

PHILIPeurobasket
03-18-2007, 05:02 PM
Some time ago, I saw somewhere that the most spread Lithuanian family name is "Stankevičius" (similar to Polish "Stankiewicz" )

Poland + Lithuania = brothers to basketball and vodka :D
99% of Lithuanian surnames you can find in Poland

ziv
03-18-2007, 05:03 PM
first of all - it won't be long till there won't be anymore players who were born before 91 (damn, we're getting old...). of course it only apply to players who didn't play for another country (like serbia, of course were not talking about yugoslavia or ussr). anyway - it would probably not apply for ever but as it was here - a special request was filled and eventually it was approved. i guess each request will be checked seperatly.
btw - we might similar cases with montenegro. but anyway we're not talking about hundreds of cases. it's not often that a country splits into two (or more) new countries so the special cases are can be decided seperatly.

Levenspiel
03-18-2007, 10:30 PM
How old was Ermal Kuqo when he came to Fenerbahçe junior team? I don't know exactly when he came, but he was playing with Fenerbahçe senior team when he was 16.


edit:
I found his website (http://www.ermalkuqo.com/004/home.htm). According to that, he came to Fenerbahçe in 1995 (at the age of 15).

qiangdade
03-19-2007, 12:03 AM
About germany: i think most players were born and raised in germany. At least guys like arigbabu, nikagbatse, demirel, pesic(not sure). I think demond greene is not born in germany but came at a very young age. His german is almost flawless (you can check an interview of his at youtube). Thing in germany is that mostly germans with foreign roots care about bball so it is only logical that they get to become better players. At least Nowitzki is a german with german roots:D :D (although i don't really care-he is just as german as the rest). As for sensley, i think his mother is german( i read it somewhere before the last wc)

PHILIPeurobasket
03-24-2007, 12:19 PM
I read today old Polish basketball magazines - I see interview with Kristof Lawrinowic - he said that his father is from Poland, and mother from Bulgaria. Lawinowic said also that he fell like Polish guy, but he life in Lithuania and Lithuania is his home.

onono1
03-24-2007, 01:45 PM
But I hope that he will stay in Poland, because Polish Bball Federation want give him Polish citizenship, and then he will be play with Polish NT in Spain 2007 :)
That is really bad thing... for NT should play Polish players and not some "payed" USA players. I could never watch my national team if they bring some foreigners to play for us :rolleyes:
Euroleague teams are crowded with foreign players, we dont need it in national teams too
Well if other countries are taking some foreigners to become a naturalized citizen in their country, the Philippines is not, we have now an 18 yr old, 250 lbs. teenage sensation who stands 7'2" and has the move of an alonzo mourning of NBA's miami heat. He is quick, agile and a good passer too.

rikhardur
03-24-2007, 03:08 PM
Well if other countries are taking some foreigners to become a naturalized citizen in their country, the Philippines is not, we have now an 18 yr old, 250 lbs. teenage sensation who stands 7'2" and has the move of an alonzo mourning of NBA's miami heat. He is quick, agile and a good passer too.
I for one would like to know the guy's name, otherwise I won't believe it. No-one has yet provided his name.

onono1
03-25-2007, 09:47 AM
for one would like to know the guy's name, otherwise I won't believe it. No-one has yet provided his name.
I've never seen him but what i got from my reliable sources, his name is rafael navales (navales is his mother's surname). Who now lives in state of hawaii. Why hes not getting heavy publicity in a basketball crazy country (though basketball has declined its popularity) like the philippines is beyond me i really don't know. Its a wonder. What i also know is the young guy is a shotblocking artist who will swat every shots u take in front of him!

BadMann
03-25-2007, 01:04 PM
why not naturalised player,if dont how bball in our country take off?

rikhardur
03-25-2007, 02:06 PM
I've never seen him but what i got from my reliable sources, his name is rafael navales (navales is his mother's surname). Who now lives in state of hawaii. Why hes not getting heavy publicity in a basketball crazy country (though basketball has declined its popularity) like the philippines is beyond me i really don't know. Its a wonder. What i also know is the young guy is a shotblocking artist who will swat every shots u take in front of him!
Thanks then, but seems he's really not getting ANY publicity, not a single page on Google about him.

onono1
03-26-2007, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=rikhardur]

Thanks then, but seems he's really not getting ANY publicity, not a single page on Google about him.



Yes, its really strange why a 7 foot tall basketball player is not getting good publicity, that's really questionable i could not even found him in every search engine i tried. Hmnnnnnnn, perhaps he's an abominable snowman who came to our country. Just kidding.

riyadi
04-19-2007, 08:02 AM
i need to say just that naturalize player is a good thing to the NT because their is lot of good american players and want to play in the world cup.
but supposed to be in every team just one player not more, these things will let the game be more challenges and tuff
in lebanon we naturalized Joseph vogel an american player and plays in the latest 2 worldcup with us. also the quatarian team naturalized more than 8 players in their national team (you should be surprised but really this is bad example).
during the last week the jordan team naturalized an american player Rasheim wright ex player in the lebanese league.

Billy
04-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Personally i dislike it very much, and this trend has taken great movement....just to name a few
Mbemba, Nnamaka - Sweden



Tell me...is it their skin colour that should make them unable to represent the Swedish national teams or other criterias of yours that they do not fulfill?

I would LOVE to hear this explanation!

I am still waiting for Markoishvilis explanation on this one.

Or have you gone into hiding Markoboy?

Markoishvili
04-20-2007, 11:32 PM
I am still waiting for Markoishvilis explanation on this one.

Or have you gone into hiding Markoboy?

You can call me a racist, but in general yes. Seeing black people playing for Sweden, or Germany for that matter doesn`t seem natural. Sure, there are some cases when one parent is black and the other is from domicile country and they are leaving there, but most of the cases aren`t that way. I feel terrible watching Croatian National team with Eduardo Alves Da Silva as one of the main stars, i cannot celebrate when he scores, i don`t feel like he is one of "us" if you know what i mean.

:p going to hyde again.

Billy
04-21-2007, 12:12 PM
You can call me a racist, but in general yes. Seeing black people playing for Sweden, or Germany for that matter doesn`t seem natural.

Calling you out as a rascist hardly seems worth it -you have, clearly, already exposed yourself as such.

What is of greater importance is why you feel this way. What aspect of a multicultural society do you not agree with and why? Is it strictly a question of skin colour or of peoples living habits?


Sure, there are some cases when one parent is black and the other is from domicile country and they are leaving there, but most of the cases aren`t that way.

I dont feel it is right to speak in general terms here, I believe that if you want to be able to have some sort of respectability left on this forum you need to get into specifics.


I feel terrible watching Croatian National team with Eduardo Alves Da Silva as one of the main stars, i cannot celebrate when he scores, i don`t feel like he is one of "us" if you know what i mean.

Is not representing the national team about pride and your will to represent your country the absolute best way of showing that you want to be a part of a society?
What is wrong with a person wanting to show so much commitment that he plays for his adopted country although it can seriously jeopardize or harm your long term ability to provide for your family?


:p going to hyde again.

I find that sad.

Markoishvili
04-21-2007, 06:20 PM
Is not representing the national team about pride and your will to represent your country the absolute best way of showing that you want to be a part of a society?
What is wrong with a person wanting to show so much commitment that he plays for his adopted country although it can seriously jeopardize or harm your long term ability to provide for your family?
I find that sad.

In my opinion, we will use this Croatian stiker Eduardo Da Silva as an example, player that grow up in Brazil, both of his parents are Brazilians, has no business playing for other country than Brazil. That is disgraceful in my opinion from a standpoint that it ruins everything National team competition represents and means.

I won`t discuss further this matter, if im racist for not liking to see blacks playing for Germany, Uzbekistans playing for Turkey, Brazilians playing for Croatia or Americans for Russia, than alright.

kalamity131
04-22-2007, 01:13 PM
In my opinion, we will use this Croatian stiker Eduardo Da Silva as an example, player that grow up in Brazil, both of his parents are Brazilians, has no business playing for other country than Brazil. That is disgraceful in my opinion from a standpoint that it ruins everything National team competition represents and means.

I won`t discuss further this matter, if im racist for not liking to see blacks playing for Germany, Uzbekistans playing for Turkey, Brazilians playing for Croatia or Americans for Russia, than alright.


All hail Markoishvili !! I think he's right.

rikhardur
04-22-2007, 01:32 PM
@ Markoishvili: If a black guy is born in say Germany, has German citizenship since he was born there, is it still wrong in your view? Or are you just against the naturalisation of (black) players?

Markoishvili
04-22-2007, 06:43 PM
If one of his parents in German than alright, if not....

rikhardur
04-22-2007, 06:51 PM
If one of his parents in German than alright, if not....
So, being born in the territory is not enough for you. I'd say you are a supporter of the jus sanguinis instead of the jus soli. I certainly support the latter (and naturalisation in general).

Czarkazem13
04-23-2007, 10:13 PM
If one of his parents in German than alright, if not....

Two things. When you say one of his parents is German, does that mean black German too? Also, are you saying that if a person (just black?) is born in a nation - with parents not from that nation - and all he knows is the langauge and culture of the nation that he was born, raised and lives in, he shouldn't represent that national team? He's not a real citizen? If not, should he rep a nation that he has never been to but his parents are from? Or no country at all?

Billy
04-24-2007, 06:55 AM
If one of his parents in German than alright, if not....

So technically, Misan Nikagbatse could represent Sweden but he could not represent Germany, the country he grew up with and taught him to play basketball?

How about if a child is adopted from for example Africa? Would it be acceptable for an adopted child to play for "his" adopted country and national team?

Also, I would love to hear who you think would be eligible to represent the US national team?

-The Appaches?

Geronimoooooooooooooooooo! ;)

Markoishvili
04-24-2007, 08:08 AM
I understand you and respect you liberalism, but i`ll stay with my opinion that the player has to have atleast one parent from the country he represents, no matter circumstances.. I know it is not fair is some cases, but it is not like they are taking human rights from them. Maybe im stubborn and old-fashioned, but that`s my opinion, you don`t have to agree with it.

Billy
04-24-2007, 09:20 AM
I understand you and respect you liberalism, but i`ll stay with my opinion that the player has to have atleast one parent from the country he represents, no matter circumstances.. I know it is not fair is some cases, but it is not like they are taking human rights from them. Maybe im stubborn and old-fashioned, but that`s my opinion, you don`t have to agree with it.

So adopted childeren is a no-no in regards to the national teams in your opinion?

Who do you think should represent the USA in international competitions?

The Mohawks? Sioux?

Trifilli
04-24-2007, 09:45 AM
In Germany there are currently living 7.3 million foreigners - at the same time the number of german citizens (= german passport) with a migration background reached the mark of 8 million and is therefore even bigger than the number of foreigners in Germany. 19% of the entire population of Germany has a migration background, if you go to the big cities like Frankfurt or Berlin (basketball centers) the number is even much much bigger. A big part of those people was already born in Germany, many as children of immigrants, who became germans before (keep in mind how many people came to Germany after WWII - and many of them stayed).
If you now look at basketball teams (also youth teams) the numbers are once again bigger, in my team (amateur in a minor league) for example you can find players who originate from Greece, Russia, Turkey, the USA, Serbia, the Ukraine - and almost all of them were born in Germany and speak perfect german.
I'm completely against the naturalisation of players who have no connection to the country, only played there for a short time, etc... - against the passport factories (like the one in Aris case for example). But people who grew up in a country, have the citizenship and speak the language should have every right to play for that countries NT.

Czarkazem13
04-24-2007, 04:45 PM
I understand you and respect you liberalism, but i`ll stay with my opinion that the player has to have atleast one parent from the country he represents, no matter circumstances.. I know it is not fair is some cases, but it is not like they are taking human rights from them. Maybe im stubborn and old-fashioned, but that`s my opinion, you don`t have to agree with it.

Forget liberalism and agreeing, I'm just trying to figure our your thought process. Where are players that fit the questions above supposed to play?

qiangdade
04-24-2007, 04:55 PM
If one of his parents in German than alright, if not....

That is so sad... I have an example: I have a friend here in Berlin both the parents of which are from afrika. However he does not speak the original language of his parents, was born and raised in germany, holds only german papers, and i've seen him being very patriotic about germany during the past WC in football, but not at all with the country of his parents. He has absolutelly no connection with his parents country. I consider him to be more german than i am. And what if he has kids with let's say a woman who is german in the way he is german. Would his kids be anything else than german?? As Trif said in Berlin (and in germany in general) there is a huge percentage of people with no "german" background. And personally i would be proud if a black or asian guy represented my country if he is good enough. I am against cases like domercant playing for Bosnia though. Has the guy even played bball in Bosnia?
Imo a multicultural equal society is something very beautiful and maybe even the solution for humans stop hating each other.

And yeah, only native americans should be eligible to play for USA otherwise. Or aboriginals for australia.

Billy
04-24-2007, 05:45 PM
And yeah, only native americans should be eligible to play for USA otherwise. Or aboriginals for australia.

There is a HUGE problem with your way of thinking though qiangdade,not even the native americans, for example the Cherokee, would be eligible as their ancestors once entered North America through a narrow passage in the Bering Sea.

The same faith awaits all the Croats as their ancestor came from the subsaharan African region.
Logical conclusion: No Croat could be eligible to play for Croatia!

It would all be so wrong as their ancestors once were as black as my touchy.

Fact is, we should just cancel all international basketball tournaments at once as there are no players who is "national" enough to play.

You do know what this means qiangdade, dont you?

All national basketball competitions must immediately end and FIBA must surrender to ULEB as it is the only entity that should be allowed to hold international/cross border competitions with its de-emphasis on nationality.

(Somewhere, far away, Turkish Power, Bolos and Markoishvilis heads simultaniously explodes)

rikhardur
04-24-2007, 06:35 PM
There is a HUGE problem with your way of thinking though qiangdade,not even the native americans, for example the Cherokee, would be eligible as their ancestors once entered North America through a narrow passage in the Bering Sea.

The same faith awaits all the Croats as their ancestor came from the subsaharan African region.
Logical conclusion: No Croat could be eligible to play for Croatia!
:D :D

qiangdade
04-24-2007, 07:49 PM
There is a HUGE problem with your way of thinking though qiangdade,not even the native americans, for example the Cherokee, would be eligible as their ancestors once entered North America through a narrow passage in the Bering Sea.

Right. So let the buffalos play for america and mooses for canada.:D :D




All national basketball competitions must immediately end and FIBA must surrender to ULEB as it is the only entity that should be allowed to hold international/cross border competitions with its de-emphasis on nationality.


We don't have to cancel national bball competitions. We just have to accept that only local animals are eligible to play for their national teams. Buffalos for Usa, mooses for Canada, lamas for Chile, yaks for tibet ,asian elefants for both India and the SE asian countries (which again raises the question where each elefant was born:D )

LuDux
04-24-2007, 08:02 PM
We don't have to cancel national bball competitions. We just have to accept that only local animals are eligible to play for their national teams. Buffalos for Usa, mooses for Canada, lamas for Chile, yaks for tibet ,asian elefants for both India and the SE asian countries (which again raises the question where each elefant was born:D )

Can Yeti play for Tibet?

qiangdade
04-24-2007, 08:07 PM
Can Yeti play for Tibet?

If they find one, why not?;)

rikhardur
04-24-2007, 08:10 PM
It would be unbeatable under the boards that's for sure :p

turkishpower
04-24-2007, 09:11 PM
I don't seen anything wrong for players coming to a country at the young age 14-15 and improving in that country and then playing for the national team. Same goes to Kuqo and Ilyasova. They both came to Turkey when they were around 15 and there is nothing wrong in that naturalization.
But it is not the same thing for Domercant, Holden or some others. I support what Turkey is doing, or what Greece has done Tsakalidis :D, or similar ones, but I don't support having Solomon in Turkish NT or having Domercant on Bosnian NT.

you know what I mean folks? :p

Billy
04-30-2007, 04:46 PM
Right. So let the buffalos play for america and mooses for canada.:D :D




We don't have to cancel national bball competitions. We just have to accept that only local animals are eligible to play for their national teams. Buffalos for Usa, mooses for Canada, lamas for Chile, yaks for tibet ,asian elefants for both India and the SE asian countries (which again raises the question where each elefant was born:D )

Its nice that you feel that there should be no limitations vis-a-vie animals as for representing the nationalteam.

Howver, there is one huge logical problem with that:

-all animals stem from the boat that Noah built so technically, all animals should play for Babylon...err...Sumeria...uh, oh... -Iraq???

I would love to hear Markoishvilis thoughts on this subject.

qiangdade
04-30-2007, 05:46 PM
Its nice that you feel that there should be no limitations vis-a-vie animals as for representing the nationalteam.

Howver, there is one huge logical problem with that:

-all animals stem from the boat that Noah built so technically, all animals should play for Babylon...err...Sumeria...uh, oh... -Iraq???

I would love to hear Markoishvilis thoughts on this subject.

Let's go with fishes then ;)

Billy
05-02-2007, 10:53 AM
Let's go with fishes then ;)

Fish has no shooting touch nor understanding of the dynamics and tactics involved in a game of basketball.

It would be some poor entertainment.

Silly qiangdade!

qiangdade
05-02-2007, 11:12 AM
Fish has no shooting touch nor understanding of the dynamics and tactics involved in a game of basketball.

It would be some poor entertainment.

Silly qiangdade!

Dolphins and seals can do miracles with balls though;)

eurobasket07
05-03-2007, 05:58 PM
Dolphins and seals can do miracles with balls though;)
:) lol

Billy
05-19-2007, 08:37 PM
Dolphins and seals can do miracles with balls though;)

Dolphins and Seals are not fish, they are mamals.

I pity the fool who does not know the difference :D

Where is our friend Markoishvili when you need him?
I really wants to hear his thoughts on the whole team USA in basketball -who is eligible in that case?

Furthermore I would like to hear his thoughts on the following players:

Rudy Mbemba: Born and raised in Sweden by immigrant parents, received citizenship at birth.

Olivie Ilunga: Born in Kongo by Kongolese parents but came to Sweden at a very young age (six I belive) and lived his entire life in the country with the exception of his time in Benneton Treviso.

Oluoma Nnamaka: Born in Sweden to a Nigerian Father and Swedish mother. Lived his entire life in Sweden untill going to Canada and High school for a year and on to college and later Europe.

(There was a fan interview (hilarious!)when he played in Bonn I believe and the interviewer asked when was the last time he went home to Nigeria and Oluoma was like "-Uh, I was born in Sweden, I went to my fathers hometown once a few years back and have not gone there since" followed by the question of what its like to live in Sweden as an immigrant and Oluoma going "-uh, well, as I said earlier, I was born in Sweden and have lived there my entire life so obviously Im not an immigrant".)

Hysterical.

Kenny Grant Jr: Born in Sweden to a US father and a Swedish mother, lived about half his life in the US and the other half in Sweden.

Serkan Inan: Born in Sweden by Turkish immigrants, spent his entire upbringing in Sweden untill going abroad to play basketball in Turkey two seasons ago.

Erkan Inan: Same as brother but never played abroad

Darly Massamba: Came to Sweden as a very young child from Kongo, the child of Kongolese parents.

Tomas Massamba: Same as his older brother although he obviously was younger.

Brice Massamba: Same as his brothers although he obviously was even younger.

Daniel Dajic: Came to Sweden before his teens, a child of Bosnian immigrants. Lived his entire life here.

Jeffery Taylor Jr: Born in Sweden, father being US and mother Swedish. Lived his entire life here.

Willy Beck: Born in Sweden, lived his entire life here. Father being a US citizen with a Norwegian passport, mother Swedish.

Brandon Barton: Born and raised in Sweden by a Swedish mother and US father.

Christian Koutras: Born and raised in Sweden by Greek parents.

Jonas Jerebko: Born and raised in Sweden, US father and Swedish mother.

Robin Ryan: Born and raised in Sweden by Swedish mother, US father.

Christoffer Ryan: same as brother Robin.

Dino Pita: Born in Sweden to Italian father and Swedish Mother, lived his entire life in Sweden.

Kassim Nagwere: Born in Uganda with Ugandan parents, came to Sweden as a toddler.

Kevin Okot: Born in Sweden by (I believe) Togolese parents. Lived his entire life in Sweden.

Enes Musa: Palestinian or Egyptian parents. Born in Sweden.

Mario Drazic: Born in Bosnia, paretns being Bosnian. Came as young child to Sweden where he has lived his entire postwar life.

Omar Zaghdene: Born in Sweden with (I believe) lebanese parents. Lived his entire life in the country.

Hamadi Nefatti: Born in Sweden by immigrant (Somalian?)parents. Lived his entire life in the country.

Christoffer Cherapowicz: Born in Sweden (I believe mother is a "native" Swede) and Polish dad. Lived his entire life in Sweden.

Jakob Batycki: Born in Sweden by Polish parents. Lived his entire life in Sweden.

Andreas Persson: Born in Sweden by a a Swedish mother, US father. Lived his entire life in Sweden.

Aaron Thorell-Walker: Born in Sweden by US father and Swedish mother. Lived his entire life in Sweden.

Calle Arnold: Born in Sweden by Swedish mother and US father. Upbringing in Sweden.

Amer Nuhic: Born in Bosnia with Bosnian parents, came to Sweden as a very small child.

Serdar Akyuz: Born in Sweden by Turkish parents. Have had his entire upbringing in Sweden.

And finally, my two all time favourites: Andrew Pleick, born in the US with a US father and Swedish mother. Moved to Sweden at a young age where he stayed untill college in the US.

Michael Palm: Born in Sweden by a US mother and a Swedish father. Moved to the US at a young age and returned to Sweden after college.

This is of course just a small sample, there is plenty more where this came from :)

Please Markoishvili -sort this out.