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durden_tyler
11-18-2011, 09:36 AM
it was mvp who rescheduled? does that mean..."dont go back,we dont need you anymore,makiramdam ka" ?

Can't you guys see the elephant in the room? Thanks. :D

analyzed
11-18-2011, 09:53 AM
The idea of having 16 PBA players in the pool is all for show. With the limited time they will be available to prepare (1 month) there is no way half of the 16 will even get to practice once much more play an official game. Think about it with a month prior to FIBA Asia. ideally your 12 man line-up should be set with at most 3 reserves ( Maximum of 15 players) with half (8) of those players coming form Gilas II members mostly amateurs and Doulthit. that leaves just 7 slots left for PBA players to be included in the pool to practice for a month. (no way will there be a 20 man plus pool with a month to go)

That's why the 16 man pool from the PBA is silly.. I can understand the 15 player pool from SInag , as there is enough time to filter who really is the most deserving players from this pool, as there will numerous practices and games over a few months to prepare and to eventually cut down the number. Plus 15 is a good size that you need for a tourning team. But 16 new players from the PBA for a month ! on top pf the aleardy 16 players from SINAG.. redicoulous ! that sound more like a whole league rookie summer camp rather than a team that will compete for the biggest tournament in less than a month. Another of Salud's silly promotional ideas !

FilipinoDad
11-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Instead of promising a pool of 16 players, I hope they can just promise the availability of the ex-Gilas boys.

This way, they don't need to practice for a long time because they already know the play. Of course, this is provided the fact that the system will be continued.

acklium
11-18-2011, 09:59 AM
Can't you guys see the elephant in the room? Thanks. :D

Silent Killer?

elisher
11-18-2011, 10:12 AM
MVP had already said his preference for point guards that are big, from what we understood even Kevin would not pass the taste of MVP, he prefers the size of the Semerad Twins, so guys like Dillinger and Norwood has the advantage .... but in all probability we might be look at Filipinos who were born and are now based overseas.

With the current scarcity in the local leagues for Filipinos who are of unlimited height, consistent outside shooters and of tall point guards, we might look at the option of going the "Azkal" way wherein we tap talents who might come as unknowns locally as they are Overseas-based Pinoys who fits the kind of players who can be more competitive internationally.

hmm..holt banchero pringle.. ^^, hopefully CS and Jordan Clarkson

elisher
11-18-2011, 10:15 AM
Toroman, MVP meeting reset to January; SMART-Gilas to ask help from Uichico, Cone


JAKARTA—The much-anticipated meeting between SMART-Gilas Pilipinas coach Rajko Toroman and Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas president Manuel V. Pangilinan has been reset to January next year.

Toroman confirmed this in a text message to InterAKTV.

“I am still in Serbia. They rescheduled my trip to Manila for January,” wrote Toroman.

The veteran international coach was supposed to meet Pangilinan on November 15 to discuss plans on the future of the SMART-Gilas program.

Toroman, who led Iran to its first FIBA Asia crown and its first Olympic basketball stint, refused to give details about his new function with the next batch of SMART-Gilas, a squad referred to as Gilas-2. “I will talk by January, after my meeting with MVP,” said Toroman. “I can’t speak about my options now.”

Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas deputy executive director Bernie Atienza said he has no knowledge regarding the decision of resetting of Toroman’s appointment with Pangilinan.

“Hindi ko alam yan. MVP (Pangilinan) alone can answer that,” added Atienza, who is currently here supporting the men’s and women’s basketball team seeking for the gold medal in the 26th Southeast Asian Games.

Butch Antonio, SMART-Gilas operations chief and Sinag Pilipinas team manager, said Toroman is still included in the shortlist of candidates to become coach of Gilas-2 along with the other coaches under the MVP stable.

Pangilinan supports several other teams including the Talk ‘N Text Tropang Texters and Meralco Bolts in the PBA, the Ateneo de Manila Blue Eagles in the UAAP and the San Beda College Red Lions in the NCAA.

“When we say coaches under the MVP stable, that also means (Ateneo head coach) Norman Black, (Talk ‘N Text head coach) Chot Reyes and (Meralco head coach) Ryan Gregorio,” said Antonio.

Black is the head coach of Sinag Pilipinas national team currently playing in the 26th Southeast Asian Games men’s basketball tournament. Reyes and Gregorio served as assistants to Toroman in the FIBA Asia Championships in Wuhan, China. Reyes also mentored the national team in 2007 FIBA Asia Championship in Tokushima, Japan.

“We want to have continuity in our program.”

Antonio also disclosed the group’s surprising plan for the Gilas-2.

“We would also ask for the help of Jong Uichico and Tim Cone, two former national team coaches to join us and share their thoughts,” added Antonio.

Cone was coach of the Philippine national team that competed in Bangkok, Thailand in 1998, while Uichico helmed the squad in 2002 in Busan, South Korea. The decision to consult with the two is surprising because both coaches are under the employ of the San Miguel Corporation, a rival stable of the MVP group in the PBA.

“I think both Jong and I would be honored to be part of the national program, It’s a no-brainer,” said Cone in a text message. “But this is a management decision which would be based on time commitment and the handling of our current teams. That’s not always a simple or easy decision for them depending on organizational priorities.”

“That’s flattering,” Uichico would say in his own text message. “I would if time and management permits.”

Silent Killer
11-18-2011, 10:45 AM
Toroman, MVP meeting reset to January; SMART-Gilas to ask help from Uichico, Cone


JAKARTA—The much-anticipated meeting between SMART-Gilas Pilipinas coach Rajko Toroman and Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas president Manuel V. Pangilinan has been reset to January next year.

Toroman confirmed this in a text message to InterAKTV.

“I am still in Serbia. They rescheduled my trip to Manila for January,” wrote Toroman.

The veteran international coach was supposed to meet Pangilinan on November 15 to discuss plans on the future of the SMART-Gilas program.

Toroman, who led Iran to its first FIBA Asia crown and its first Olympic basketball stint, refused to give details about his new function with the next batch of SMART-Gilas, a squad referred to as Gilas-2. “I will talk by January, after my meeting with MVP,” said Toroman. “I can’t speak about my options now.”

Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas deputy executive director Bernie Atienza said he has no knowledge regarding the decision of resetting of Toroman’s appointment with Pangilinan.

“Hindi ko alam yan. MVP (Pangilinan) alone can answer that,” added Atienza, who is currently here supporting the men’s and women’s basketball team seeking for the gold medal in the 26th Southeast Asian Games.

Butch Antonio, SMART-Gilas operations chief and Sinag Pilipinas team manager, said Toroman is still included in the shortlist of candidates to become coach of Gilas-2 along with the other coaches under the MVP stable.

Pangilinan supports several other teams including the Talk ‘N Text Tropang Texters and Meralco Bolts in the PBA, the Ateneo de Manila Blue Eagles in the UAAP and the San Beda College Red Lions in the NCAA.

“When we say coaches under the MVP stable, that also means (Ateneo head coach) Norman Black, (Talk ‘N Text head coach) Chot Reyes and (Meralco head coach) Ryan Gregorio,” said Antonio.

Black is the head coach of Sinag Pilipinas national team currently playing in the 26th Southeast Asian Games men’s basketball tournament. Reyes and Gregorio served as assistants to Toroman in the FIBA Asia Championships in Wuhan, China. Reyes also mentored the national team in 2007 FIBA Asia Championship in Tokushima, Japan.

“We want to have continuity in our program.”

Antonio also disclosed the group’s surprising plan for the Gilas-2.

“We would also ask for the help of Jong Uichico and Tim Cone, two former national team coaches to join us and share their thoughts,” added Antonio.

Cone was coach of the Philippine national team that competed in Bangkok, Thailand in 1998, while Uichico helmed the squad in 2002 in Busan, South Korea. The decision to consult with the two is surprising because both coaches are under the employ of the San Miguel Corporation, a rival stable of the MVP group in the PBA.

“I think both Jong and I would be honored to be part of the national program, It’s a no-brainer,” said Cone in a text message. “But this is a management decision which would be based on time commitment and the handling of our current teams. That’s not always a simple or easy decision for them depending on organizational priorities.”

“That’s flattering,” Uichico would say in his own text message. “I would if time and management permits.”

This answers on why coach toroman didn't come last november 15.

toikins
11-18-2011, 12:52 PM
MVP had already said his preference for point guards that are big, from what we understood even Kevin would not pass the taste of MVP, he prefers the size of the Semerad Twins, so guys like Dillinger and Norwood has the advantage .... but in all probability we might be look at Filipinos who were born and are now based overseas.

With the current scarcity in the local leagues for Filipinos who are of unlimited height, consistent outside shooters and of tall point guards, we might look at the option of going the "Azkal" way wherein we tap talents who might come as unknowns locally as they are Overseas-based Pinoys who fits the kind of players who can be more competitive internationally.

how about stanley pringle and chris banchero who are just 6'0 - 6'1 but good.
sbp must push to get both of these guys. 2013 is just around we need guys who would be able to perform for real by that time.

nardy
11-18-2011, 02:59 PM
sir nardy. if i may add.

why was coach rajko's flight rescheduled to january? who rescheduled it? sbp or coach rajko himself? any insights?:confused:

By this time you guys should have read between the lines on MVP's action or inaction on Toroman. As I said in the past if MVP is still going to shoulder financially Gilas 2.0 by his lonesome, it would be MVP's call on who would be the Head Coach. With him making a clear announcement that he offered Rajko a Consultancy Position and not as Head Coach before Toroman left for vacation in Serbia is as clear as day MVP was not satisfied with Rajko's performance. Of course Toroman wants a second chance. I think it is a bluff when Rajko said he has an offer in Europe as there has been a lot of coaching changes all over the world and been surfing the net and so far has not come across of any club or national team wanting to get Coach Rajko. When the supposed Nov 15 deadline came, it was not from the SBP nor Gilas Management where news about Toroman came from. It was actually a tweet by Noli Eala that he got surprised by a sudden text by Rajko Toroman that his return has been postponed to January even if Noli had not actually contacted him.

As a consultant, MVP had other plans for Toroman. We really need to have transfer of technology to the local coaches which was one of his objectives but Coach Rajko had barely accomplished. MVP had grand plans for the development of basketball at all levels. A lot is still to be done with regards to grassroots development. If we really want to regain our international glory, it is not enough to concentrate on the Men's National Team, there are other important things we should address. Some of the more basic things which really needs attention are the detoriation of our players free throw accuracy at all levels and the sudden lack of players who are consistent outside shooters, its not only 3-point shooters as we are also now lacking good mid-range shooters. What we had developed are scorers but not shooters. With our lack of height we also need to get our players and teams to learn to play different zone defense, our dependence on man-to-man defense makes all our teams so predictable in defense. So improving merely the Mens National Team is not enough, there must be changes all over.

nardy
11-18-2011, 03:39 PM
The idea of having 16 PBA players in the pool is all for show. With the limited time they will be available to prepare (1 month) there is no way half of the 16 will even get to practice once much more play an official game. Think about it with a month prior to FIBA Asia. ideally your 12 man line-up should be set with at most 3 reserves ( Maximum of 15 players) with half (8) of those players coming form Gilas II members mostly amateurs and Doulthit. that leaves just 7 slots left for PBA players to be included in the pool to practice for a month. (no way will there be a 20 man plus pool with a month to go)

That's why the 16 man pool from the PBA is silly.. I can understand the 15 player pool from SInag , as there is enough time to filter who really is the most deserving players from this pool, as there will numerous practices and games over a few months to prepare and to eventually cut down the number. Plus 15 is a good size that you need for a tourning team. But 16 new players from the PBA for a month ! on top pf the aleardy 16 players from SINAG.. redicoulous ! that sound more like a whole league rookie summer camp rather than a team that will compete for the biggest tournament in less than a month. Another of Salud's silly promotional ideas !

The SBP especially Executive Director Sonny Barrios is giving the PBA particularly Commisioner Chito Salud a benefit of doubt and diplomaticaly see the offer are in good faith. The MVP Coaches Chot Reyes, Ryan Gregorio and Norman Black together with Jong Uichico and Tim Cone who would be asked to join as National Team consultants would brainstorm and the group would come up on who are the 16 PBA Players who should be in the pool but as of now alumni of Gilas 1.0 had the edge as the SBP would like continuity. Jordan is a good example that there is still continuity if the core of the team stays together even if there is a change from Coach Palma to Coach Baldwin.

But with the SBP also announcing that they'll also choose 15 non-PBA Players is an indication if the PBA fails to deliver, they would have more than enough players to do the job.

However personally I still have reservations on the PBA offer as there is just a lot of limitations which could be factors that might make the pool not really work effectively. For example if the non-PBA players learned a lot of new techniques from months of training overseas, how can we use said new techniques in the Final line-up of the FIBA tournament, if lets say half of the team are PBA players who are not familiar with said techniques as they were barred from overseas training as it is in conflict with the PBA season.

nardy
11-18-2011, 03:59 PM
This answers on why coach toroman didn't come last november 15.

feel sad for coach .... but this kind of things do happen and maybe its time to move on.

If you know how MVP is in business, his offer of Consultant would stand. To Toroman, he either takes it or leave it. From what I remember, Nov 15 is really the date Toroman comes back if he accepts the offer. But from the looks of it Coach Rajko wants to have a meeting maybe to justify himself being retained as Head Coach but it seems MVP is not willing to pay for his airfare, board and lodging for a meeting at this time.

I think he is still awaiting for coaching offers before Toroman officially turn down MVP's offer of a Consultancy position. He texting Noli is a way to tell Eala that he is still available a subtle way of asking if there is a position available at the SMC Group where Eala has a great influence in decision making with regards to basketball matters.

pachador
11-18-2011, 05:38 PM
This is very good. if I understand this correctly, the SBP is consulting the top coaches on who they will recommend to be the national coach. i hope this is what will happen -local or foreign coach , as long as its a choice recommendation by the top coaches of the land. no palakasan.



Toroman, MVP meeting reset to January; SMART-Gilas to ask help from Uichico, Cone


JAKARTA—The much-anticipated meeting between SMART-Gilas Pilipinas coach Rajko Toroman and Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas president Manuel V. Pangilinan has been reset to January next year.

Toroman confirmed this in a text message to InterAKTV.

“I am still in Serbia. They rescheduled my trip to Manila for January,” wrote Toroman.

The veteran international coach was supposed to meet Pangilinan on November 15 to discuss plans on the future of the SMART-Gilas program.

Toroman, who led Iran to its first FIBA Asia crown and its first Olympic basketball stint, refused to give details about his new function with the next batch of SMART-Gilas, a squad referred to as Gilas-2. “I will talk by January, after my meeting with MVP,” said Toroman. “I can’t speak about my options now.”

Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas deputy executive director Bernie Atienza said he has no knowledge regarding the decision of resetting of Toroman’s appointment with Pangilinan.

“Hindi ko alam yan. MVP (Pangilinan) alone can answer that,” added Atienza, who is currently here supporting the men’s and women’s basketball team seeking for the gold medal in the 26th Southeast Asian Games.

Butch Antonio, SMART-Gilas operations chief and Sinag Pilipinas team manager, said Toroman is still included in the shortlist of candidates to become coach of Gilas-2 along with the other coaches under the MVP stable.

Pangilinan supports several other teams including the Talk ‘N Text Tropang Texters and Meralco Bolts in the PBA, the Ateneo de Manila Blue Eagles in the UAAP and the San Beda College Red Lions in the NCAA.

“When we say coaches under the MVP stable, that also means (Ateneo head coach) Norman Black, (Talk ‘N Text head coach) Chot Reyes and (Meralco head coach) Ryan Gregorio,” said Antonio.

Black is the head coach of Sinag Pilipinas national team currently playing in the 26th Southeast Asian Games men’s basketball tournament. Reyes and Gregorio served as assistants to Toroman in the FIBA Asia Championships in Wuhan, China. Reyes also mentored the national team in 2007 FIBA Asia Championship in Tokushima, Japan.

“We want to have continuity in our program.”

Antonio also disclosed the group’s surprising plan for the Gilas-2.

“We would also ask for the help of Jong Uichico and Tim Cone, two former national team coaches to join us and share their thoughts,” added Antonio.

Cone was coach of the Philippine national team that competed in Bangkok, Thailand in 1998, while Uichico helmed the squad in 2002 in Busan, South Korea. The decision to consult with the two is surprising because both coaches are under the employ of the San Miguel Corporation, a rival stable of the MVP group in the PBA.

“I think both Jong and I would be honored to be part of the national program, It’s a no-brainer,” said Cone in a text message. “But this is a management decision which would be based on time commitment and the handling of our current teams. That’s not always a simple or easy decision for them depending on organizational priorities.”

“That’s flattering,” Uichico would say in his own text message. “I would if time and management permits.”

analyzed
11-19-2011, 02:39 AM
So who are our prospective FIBA 2013 members, not just Gilas II members? from the SINAG team?
The guys who I see potential, not necessary the best now, but can really get better are:

PG: Ravena , Garcia maybe?
SG Parks
SF Ellis
C Slaughters

All the rest SInAg menbers I can't see their upside. They seem undersize for elite Asian level competition.

If you add , Ramos, Fajardo , Bachero
Other Fil-ams , interested in joining Gilas II.
Gilas I allumni and TNT's Castro, Dillinger and Williams.

You have a pool of 16 or so talented players to choose from. Reason I singled out TNT members is given the situation, they will have realistic more time to practice with the NT team. While Gilas I allumni know the system and Int'l ball

Jomar09
11-19-2011, 04:15 AM
If the SBP plans to win the 2013 championship, I think they should really give it a thought if they should consider the "gamble" of inserting the young guys such as Parks and Ravena. Yes I admit they are athletic and skilled but in terms of experience the Gilas veterans, which are also skilled and athletic, are the logical choices.

analyzed
11-19-2011, 05:08 AM
If the SBP plans to win the 2013 championship, I think they should really give it a thought if they should consider the "gamble" of inserting the young guys such as Parks and Ravena. Yes I admit they are athletic and skilled but in terms of experience the Gilas veterans, which are also skilled and athletic, are the logical choices.

The decision to include young guys like Parks and Ravena in the final 12 man line-up for 2013 FIBa can be made just prior to tournament. We don't need to make that decision now and we can afford to include them now in the training pool as aspirant and evaluate their readiness when 2013 arrives.
What is important is what we do now or starting early next year, And that is to form the training team (Gilas II) , not only will we be training the young guys , who might or might not be included in the team, but more importantly we will be developing or continuing the system centered around the most imporant piece in the puzzel our naturalized center "Doulthit".

Marcus at center and Tiu at point form the starting foundation which everything else can be built on.

Alex07
11-19-2011, 05:10 AM
If the SBP plans to win the 2013 championship, I think they should really give it a thought if they should consider the "gamble" of inserting the young guys such as Parks and Ravena. Yes I admit they are athletic and skilled but in terms of experience the Gilas veterans, which are also skilled and athletic, are the logical choices.

I agree..As I've said before they've got a lot of years ahead of them..these guys are still young boys learning to play like men and Fiba-Asia championship is a men's tournament.These guys have got a lot of maturing and improvement to do...Parks has got to learn to play tougher defense..watching him playing against the Malaysians last night,he's a good offense player but defensively he's not there yet.Kiefer has got to play a lot of more point guard chores if he wants to be included in the senior men's team.I hope Slaughter will improve on his footwork seeing him flat footed on defense against the Malaysians.Our Sinag team is no doubt gifted offensive players but they have to do well on defense too.

PinoyPride
11-19-2011, 08:31 AM
What about Jason Deutchman and Alex Mallari?

I think these two are the best prospect Fil-Ams, not Hodge or Ellis. Hodge and Ellis are too one-dimensional, and the Sinag locals like Ravena or anyone are too small.

Mallari i a prototypical 2 or 3, with a large skill set ala Ryan Reyes. (can shoot the 3, can handle the ball, 6'4).

Deutchman I think is an even better prospect, and probably would be the #1 pick in 2012 Pba draft. A versatile 6'6, who can shoot the ball and take it inside, he would be a matchup nightmare at the 3 position. If I recall correctly, he was invited for Gilas 1, but was still in school at SDSU.

These two guys should definitely be more than considered.

thatweirdguy
11-19-2011, 08:51 AM
So who are our prospective FIBA 2013 members, not just Gilas II members? from the SINAG team?
The guys who I see potential, not necessary the best now, but can really get better are:

PG: Ravena , Garcia maybe?
SG Parks
SF Ellis
C Slaughters

All the rest SInAg menbers I can't see their upside. They seem undersize for elite Asian level competition.

If you add , Ramos, Fajardo , Bachero
Other Fil-ams , interested in joining Gilas II.
Gilas I allumni and TNT's Castro, Dillinger and Williams.

You have a pool of 16 or so talented players to choose from. Reason I singled out TNT members is given the situation, they will have realistic more time to practice with the NT team. While Gilas I allumni know the system and Int'l ball

Garcia could be trained to be our new JV

Alex07
11-19-2011, 01:08 PM
let's not worry about the players playing fr Gilas ver.2.The thing that worries me more is the coach.These are my evaluations with our "local" coaches.if you agree or disagree please post your reactions or care to add more comparisons of coaches.

Norman Black

positives:
- a great amateur coach but he has a more American approach with his fast breaks and pass to the low post plays.
- coached the nationals when the dinosaurs were still roaming across the land.

negatives:
- I don't see him having clever half court sets.
- he is madly inlove with Eman Monfort.

Tim Cone

positives:
- very systematic coach that might be good for the international brand of play.
- he uses the triangle like crazy
- has an experience of coaching the nationals but that was a long time ago.

negatives:
- Defense?
- does not have three point plays on his book..if there is,it's very rare.
- he uses the triangle like crazy

Jong Uichico

positives:
- has good half court passing plays
- is a disciple of Ron Jacobs

negatives:
- might have a tendency to make palusot when losing.
- loves to have a full team of guards.

Chot Reyes

positives:
- has international ball experience playing second in command to Rajko
- plays a lot of up tempo basketball

negatives:
- defense?
- does not have much half court plays

carlz69
11-19-2011, 01:36 PM
let's not worry about the players playing fr Gilas ver.2.The thing that worries me more is the coach.These are my evaluations with our "local" coaches.if you agree or disagree please post your reactions or care to add more comparisons of coaches.

Norman Black

positives:
- a great amateur coach but he has a more American approach with his fast breaks and pass to the low post plays.
- coached the nationals when the dinosaurs were still roaming across the land.

negatives:
- I don't see him having clever half court sets.
- he is madly inlove with Eman Monfort.

Tim Cone

positives:
- very systematic coach that might be good for the international brand of play.
- he uses the triangle like crazy
- has an experience of coaching the nationals but that was a long time ago.

negatives:
- Defense?
- does not have three point plays on his book..if there is,it's very rare.
- he uses the triangle like crazy

Jong Uichico

positives:
- has good half court passing plays
- is a disciple of Ron Jacobs

negatives:
- might have a tendency to make palusot when losing.
- loves to have a full team of guards.

Chot Reyes

positives:
- has international ball experience playing second in command to Rajko
- plays a lot of up tempo basketball

negatives:
- defense?
- does not have much half court plays


norman black and tim cone's defense are good. and yes coach chot plays are like "pang kanto" playground. I dont know if chot uses the plays of toroman like it should be. I think a collaboration between 1-3 coaches will do but boy when will they meet in a pba season that lasts whole year round i don't think they will have time:eek:

nardy
11-19-2011, 01:36 PM
let's not worry about the players playing fr Gilas ver.2.The thing that worries me more is the coach.These are my evaluations with our "local" coaches.if you agree or disagree please post your reactions or care to add more comparisons of coaches.

Norman Black

positives:
- a great amateur coach but he has a more American approach with his fast breaks and pass to the low post plays.
- coached the nationals when the dinosaurs were still roaming across the land.

negatives:
- I don't see him having clever half court sets.
- he is madly inlove with Eman Monfort.

Tim Cone

positives:
- very systematic coach that might be good for the international brand of play.
- he uses the triangle like crazy
- has an experience of coaching the nationals but that was a long time ago.

negatives:
- Defense?
- does not have three point plays on his book..if there is,it's very rare.
- he uses the triangle like crazy

Jong Uichico

positives:
- has good half court passing plays
- is a disciple of Ron Jacobs

negatives:
- might have a tendency to make palusot when losing.
- loves to have a full team of guards.

Chot Reyes

positives:
- has international ball experience playing second in command to Rajko
- plays a lot of up tempo basketball

negatives:
- defense?
- does not have much half court plays


How about Ryan Gregorio and Frankie Lim ???? What can you also say about the man who is said to have been picked by Toroman as his successor, Charles Tiu?

How about Yeng Guiao who also wants a 2nd shot at it?

theImbaguy
11-19-2011, 02:15 PM
let's not worry about the players playing fr Gilas ver.2.The thing that worries me more is the coach.These are my evaluations with our "local" coaches.if you agree or disagree please post your reactions or care to add more comparisons of coaches.

Norman Black

positives:
- a great amateur coach but he has a more American approach with his fast breaks and pass to the low post plays.
- coached the nationals when the dinosaurs were still roaming across the land.

negatives:
- I don't see him having clever half court sets.
- he is madly inlove with Eman Monfort.

Tim Cone

positives:
- very systematic coach that might be good for the international brand of play.
- he uses the triangle like crazy
- has an experience of coaching the nationals but that was a long time ago.

negatives:
- Defense?
- does not have three point plays on his book..if there is,it's very rare.
- he uses the triangle like crazy

Jong Uichico

positives:
- has good half court passing plays
- is a disciple of Ron Jacobs

negatives:
- might have a tendency to make palusot when losing.
- loves to have a full team of guards.

Chot Reyes

positives:
- has international ball experience playing second in command to Rajko
- plays a lot of up tempo basketball

negatives:
- defense?
- does not have much half court plays


when tim cone was still in alaska, the last time he won a championship was the one with simpson. He has thoss, tenorio, bagiuo, devance, fonacier, hugnatan. These guys were really good on offense. But the main reason they won that year is because of their defense, tim cone made a one heck of a defensive team considering the only guy well known for his D is tony dela cruz.
So i can say tim can have good defense if he wanted to. But the only drawback is it takes time to master his stuff, considering we dont have that much time in our hands.

FilipinoDad
11-19-2011, 03:18 PM
How about Ryan Gregorio and Frankie Lim ???? What can you also say about the man who is said to have been picked by Toroman as his successor, Charles Tiu?

How about Yeng Guiao who also wants a 2nd shot at it?

Coach Frankie regularly runs Gilas plays for SBC. So I guess he's not a bad choice.

analyzed
11-20-2011, 12:12 AM
Best coach? hmm.. I think given the choices we should be looking at a commitee of coaches , or the coaching staff. Given that Charles Tiu had the most exposure to Toroman's system he is a must . as an assistant. Remember the guy who is an expert in the system is not necessary the best coach. Remember tex Winters was the mastermind of the Triangle offense , yet he always served as an assistant not a head coach. Likewise Phil Jackson is not well know to be knowledgeble in the details of x and O plays , but he was known as a master communicator and psychologist. Very similar to Chot's strenghts. Norman Black on the otherhand is a very good developmental coach. being a former player himself. ( he will be a great mentor for our big men , especially with his understanding of dealing with American's like Doulthit. While I think Uichico is an excellent scout/ consultant. He can prepare the game plans well to counter how best to play against teams.

So that should answer the question:

Head Coach : Chot
Systems coach: Charles Tiu (main duty is to assist Chot, not to communicate with players (who might not respect him)
Norman : Development and big man coach
Ucicho: Chief scout and defense coach

KevinDurant
11-20-2011, 01:22 AM
If Chot is the next NT coach, expect majority of TNT players to be in the final lineup. Like that of SINAG, majority were Black's players who already know the system. What's important is to have a team with a CORE who is familiar with each other. Fine tuning by inserting additions will also be done to fill the weak spots. If Toroman's lineup was made up of the Gilas core and PBA reinforcements, then Chot's lineup would be made up of TNT players plus other players from non MVP teams and maybe from Sinag.

reamily
11-20-2011, 02:32 AM
what differs hodge from all other prospects is his work ethic :eek: and he is willing to become one of the guys.. coaches love these type of guys in their team

reamily
11-20-2011, 02:39 AM
If chot would be the coach

I expect a 20 man pool for the national team:eek: heck 18 is not enough for what kind of play Chot implements to his teams all out from the get go look at Tnt line up now...tats why the cliff hodge's is the type of players who can survive in his style:D

Alex07
11-20-2011, 02:47 AM
Best coach? hmm.. I think given the choices we should be looking at a commitee of coaches , or the coaching staff. Given that Charles Tiu had the most exposure to Toroman's system he is a must . as an assistant. Remember the guy who is an expert in the system is not necessary the best coach. Remember tex Winters was the mastermind of the Triangle offense , yet he always served as an assistant not a head coach. Likewise Phil Jackson is not well know to be knowledgeble in the details of x and O plays , but he was known as a master communicator and psychologist. Very similar to Chot's strenghts. Norman Black on the otherhand is a very good developmental coach. being a former player himself. ( he will be a great mentor for our big men , especially with his understanding of dealing with American's like Doulthit. While I think Uichico is an excellent scout/ consultant. He can prepare the game plans well to counter how best to play against teams.

So that should answer the question:

Head Coach : Chot
Systems coach: Charles Tiu (main duty is to assist Chot, not to communicate with players (who might not respect him)
Norman : Development and big man coach
Ucicho: Chief scout and defense coach

one more thing I don't like about Chot,like Norman Black,they love small ball a lot.Remember his 2007 stint playing Cagouia,Alapag and Hontiveros at the same time.Norman uses Monfort,Ravena,Parks and Salva playing power forward but of course this is the SEA games..but still.

Alex07
11-20-2011, 02:53 AM
How about Ryan Gregorio and Frankie Lim ???? What can you also say about the man who is said to have been picked by Toroman as his successor, Charles Tiu?

How about Yeng Guiao who also wants a 2nd shot at it?

I'm not very familiar about Lim and Gregorio.Though IMO they'll be good assistant coaches and maybe one day be a good RP head coach.Gregorio is very new school and very emotional and passionate.While in the case of Yeng Guiao..IMO he lost a lot of respect and credibility in 2009 and continues to lose repsect with his elbowing the opponent's players antics.I wonder who is your favorite local coach sir nardz?

yogaflame
11-20-2011, 03:32 AM
Majority wants Toroman back and he has done allot for the team. Please not drama queen Chot and Ateneo lover Black. This guys still use ancient system. We need a coach who has great credential in international games. Toroman can definitely mold both Amateur and PBA stars together. Ravena , Parks, Banchero, etc, will be trained well in his system and PBA stars like Dillinger, Santos, Thoss, Japeth, etc. will get better. Add Cone triangle offense and we are good to go.

pinoybug
11-20-2011, 04:44 AM
let's not worry about the players playing fr Gilas ver.2.The thing that worries me more is the coach.These are my evaluations with our "local" coaches.if you agree or disagree please post your reactions or care to add more comparisons of coaches.

Norman Black

positives:
- a great amateur coach but he has a more American approach with his fast breaks and pass to the low post plays.
- coached the nationals when the dinosaurs were still roaming across the land.

negatives:
- I don't see him having clever half court sets.
- he is madly inlove with Eman Monfort.

Tim Cone

positives:
- very systematic coach that might be good for the international brand of play.
- he uses the triangle like crazy
- has an experience of coaching the nationals but that was a long time ago.

negatives:
- Defense?
- does not have three point plays on his book..if there is,it's very rare.
- he uses the triangle like crazy

Jong Uichico

positives:
- has good half court passing plays
- is a disciple of Ron Jacobs

negatives:
- might have a tendency to make palusot when losing.
- loves to have a full team of guards.

Chot Reyes

positives:
- has international ball experience playing second in command to Rajko
- plays a lot of up tempo basketball

negatives:
- defense?
- does not have much half court plays


I think each coach has his pros and cons. How about if and when the coaches get together that they contribute and compile the best defensive plays and offensive set that they could come up with. This would mitigate the unavailability of some PBA coaches if they are tied up with the PBA season. And maybe if there could be a defensive coach. And it's also important to identify early the best skills and conditioning coach that's out there that is also within SBP's budget.

tito thoots
11-20-2011, 05:22 AM
I think each coach has his pros and cons. How about if and when the coaches get together that they contribute and compile the best defensive plays and offensive set that they could come up with. This would mitigate the unavailability of some PBA coaches if they are tied up with the PBA season. And maybe if there could be a defensive coach. And it's also important to identify early the best skills and conditioning coach that's out there that is also within SBP's budget.

Wow. It takes the whole stable of coaches to replace Rajko. Just do the easiest thing and rehire. Just my thoughts. He can play small ball all he wants if he has Ellis, Hodge, Parks, Ravena to mix and match. I'm not even listing the likes of Banchero, Holt etc. With these guards around, is it still called small ball?

analyzed
11-20-2011, 05:42 AM
If Chot is the next NT coach, expect majority of TNT players to be in the final lineup. Like that of SINAG, majority were Black's players who already know the system. What's important is to have a team with a CORE who is familiar with each other. Fine tuning by inserting additions will also be done to fill the weak spots. If Toroman's lineup was made up of the Gilas core and PBA reinforcements, then Chot's lineup would be made up of TNT players plus other players from non MVP teams and maybe from Sinag.

I agree given the contraints the PBA is imposing on players avaialbility to prepare. More likely than not the PBA players will come exculusively from MVP PBA teams (mostly TNT) and former Gilas I members, who will then reinforce Gilas II.(majority will be SINAG members). The head coach obviously will come from MVP stable of teams. At this point it's almost 95 % sure that the next coach will either be Chot or Black, With only a 5 % chance that Toroman will be retained as head coach

theImbaguy
11-20-2011, 05:53 AM
Wow. It takes the whole stable of coaches to replace Rajko. Just do the easiest thing and rehire. Just my thoughts. He can play small ball all he wants if he has Ellis, Hodge, Parks, Ravena to mix and match. I'm not even listing the likes of Banchero, Holt etc. With these guards around, is it still called small ball?

plus norwood mercado dilinger from the pros

pinoybug
11-20-2011, 06:03 AM
Wow. It takes the whole stable of coaches to replace Rajko. Just do the easiest thing and rehire. Just my thoughts. He can play small ball all he wants if he has Ellis, Hodge, Parks, Ravena to mix and match. I'm not even listing the likes of Banchero, Holt etc. With these guards around, is it still called small ball?

Well, that may be true. Coach Rajko's experience and capabilities are big shoes to fill. But, he also has some cons such as his stubbornness and inflexibility at times. So yes it takes a whole lot to replace him AND fill in the gaps too. Also, we are not discarding Coach Rajko's plays, in fact we are improving it that way. So it can not be said that we did not give our best tactically, why not harness all the skills of the nominated coaches? Which I must admit is easier said than done. But worth a try :D

cutee_cute2
11-20-2011, 09:16 AM
WATCH!!! SEA GAMES 2011: Sinag Pilipinas vs. Thailand (Men’s Basketball Finals) November 20, 2011 8pm Live Streaming

http://markangpinoy.com/sea-games-2011-sinag-pilipinas-vs-thailand-finals-november-20-2011-live-streaming

nardy
11-20-2011, 09:53 AM
I'm not very familiar about Lim and Gregorio.Though IMO they'll be good assistant coaches and maybe one day be a good RP head coach.Gregorio is very new school and very emotional and passionate.While in the case of Yeng Guiao..IMO he lost a lot of respect and credibility in 2009 and continues to lose repsect with his elbowing the opponent's players antics.I wonder who is your favorite local coach sir nardz?

My favorite coaches are already past their prime ..... Baby Dalupan and Tommy Manotoc plus Sonny Jaworski in a way. I also have high respect for Joe Lipa and Ron Jacobs. Then of course Ato Badolato is to me the greatest local High School ever.

In recent years I am biased towards my close friends Dindo Pumaren and Eric Altamirano. Also admire Fil-am Erik Spoelstra in the NBA. I always admire Yeng Guiao as a PBA Coach ever since his RFM days.


Majority wants Toroman back and he has done allot for the team. Please not drama queen Chot and Ateneo lover Black. This guys still use ancient system. We need a coach who has great credential in international games. Toroman can definitely mold both Amateur and PBA stars together. Ravena , Parks, Banchero, etc, will be trained well in his system and PBA stars like Dillinger, Santos, Thoss, Japeth, etc. will get better. Add Cone triangle offense and we are good to go.

If you know how MVP does it with his teams, he rewards those who are consistently winners.
Do note MVP also demands exclusivity to him as proof of loyalty, look at Koy Banal who guided the San Beda Red Lions to the NCAA Season 82 Championship after 28 years of no championship but they had to let him go when he could not give-up his PBL Head Coach and PBA Assistant Coach positions in the San Miguel Group. Thus Frankie Lim erstwhile Talk N Text Team Manager assuming the San Beda Head Coach which he has very much secured after 4 Championship and 1 1st Runner-Up placing in 5 Seasons. Despite a lot of lobbying made within the San Beda community to replace Frankie Lim as they do not like him personally or does not trust his coaching capability but MVP stood still in retaining Lim reasoning out that Frankie's winning record speaks for itself with regards to his decision.
Cases in point ....
multi-titled coach Yeng Guiao was Pepsi's coach when the team gotten the Mobiline name after the 1996 PBA All-Filipino Cup, after two conferences of not winning a Championship he was not re-hired.

Norman Black was already a multi-titled Grandslam PBA coach before joining Mobiline but when he failed to win a championship, as they only advanced to the semi-finals in the 1997 All-Filipino but faltered in the 1997 Commissioner's Cup, he was quickly dispatched.

Another Grandslam and multi-titled coach, Tommy Manotoc assumed Black's job after being his consultant but was only given less than two years of not winning a Championship and was shown the exit.

Eric Altamirano was a good PBA Champion coach but he only won the "Special Tournament" Centennial Cup championship in 1998 and without a follow-up Championship within 2 years, he is also outted.

Louie Alas, a Champion Coach in the MBA, NCAA, NCRAA and the PBL also took less than two years of not winning a Championship and he was fired.

Then there is controversial American Bill Bayno is US NCAA Coach and NBA Assistant Coach who quitted after less than a year of not winning a Championship and after Talk N Text finishing only at 2nd place in the 2002 Commissioner's Cup, he left the team, but without some parting shots on the PBA when he accused the league of favoring the San Miguel Corporation teams.

Paul Woolpert, another American multi-titled coach in the US Minor League CBA replaced Bayno. The Phone Pals struggled early in the 2003 All-Filipino and midway to that tournament, Woolpert left the team and was replaced.

Ateneo coach Joel Banal, who led the Blue Eagles to the UAAP title in 2002 took over from Woolpert. Talk 'N Text rose to the tournament and captured the 2003 All-Filipino Cup over defending champion Coca-Cola in six games. The team also qualified in the 2003 PBA Invitationals where four guest teams were invited. Joel Banal left the team for the moment to concentrate on his Ateneo Blue Eagles stint in the UAAP.

Ariel Vanguardia took over as acting coach, The Phone Pals did not qualify for the 2003 PBA Invitationals semis of the but not without controversy. Needing to win by eight points over Red Bull Barako to qualify, the Phone Pals deliberately fouled several Red Bull players in the last two minutes to force an overtime or even reached the needed eight point margin. The game turned out to be more disgraceful when Jojo Manalo tried to hit a three-pointer on Red Bull's basket. The incident led to a hefty fine and a five game suspension to Vanguardia. But Ariel stayed on as part of the Coaching Staff until he was fired by Frankie Lim after Banal resigned as Head Coach.

In 2004, Joel Banal resigned as Ateneo head coach to concentrate on the Talk 'N Text team. In the 2004-05 Fiesta Conference, the team faced San Miguel in the finals series but lost. After the disappointing finish in the 2005-2006 Fiesta Conference, Joel Banal was forced to resign as head coach.

Back as coach in the 2005-06 Philippine Cup was Multi-titled Coach Derrick Pumaren who had a previous stint as 7-Up/Pepsi coach 1992–1994 before the trade he had with Swift's Yeng Guiao. In the 2007 PBA Fiesta Conference, the Phone Pals barged into the Finals but after close Game 7 loss it sealed Talk 'N Text's third successive Finals defeat. The team traded Asi Taulava and was eliminated in the first wildcard round of the 2007-2008 Philippine Cup thus to rumors of team management firing Derrick Pumaren and his staff but after a meeting with the players, it was decided to defer the decision until after the next tournament, the 2008 PBA Fiesta Conference.

On January 28, 2008, it was announced that former San Miguel Beermen head coach Chot Reyes would replace Pumaren as coach.

Here's Chot's record with TNT:
In the 2007-2008 Fiesta Conference, the Phone Pals dropped at the second wildcard round against the Sta. Lucia Realtors to deny them of quarterfinal qualification.

In the 2008–09 Philippine Cup, The Texters and the Alaska Aces faced off anew in the Finals, this time with Talk 'N Text winning in seven games.

At the 2009 Fiesta Conference, Talk N Text lost its One-game playoff with Purefoods in double overtime thus failing to reach the Quarterfinals.

The TNT walk out against Ginebra during their Game 4 of the 2009-2010 Philippine Cup Quarter Finals and they failed to defend their title

In the 2010 Fiesta Conference, TNT placed 3rd after they beat Derby Ace in their 3rd place playoff game after they lost to eventual Champion Alaska 4-3 in their Semifinal series.

The TNT won the Championship in the 2010-2011 Philippine Cup after defeating the San Miguel Beermen in 6 Games in their Finals series.

TNT won the Championship in the 2011 Commissioner's Cup after an epic OT win against the Barangay Ginebra Kings in Game 6 of their best-of-seven series.

Talk N Text's shot at the Grandslam was foiled after they lost to Petron after 7 games in their 2011 Governors Cup Finals series.


In the on-going 2011-12 Philippine Cup, Talk N Text is leading the Elimination Round with a 8 win 1 loss record.
With Chot Reyes being the winningest PBA coach for the Talk N Text franchise, can we blame MVP giving him the trust and giving-in to the desire of Coach Chot for another shot at the Head Coach position of the National Team.

Judging on the turnover of Coaches in MVP teams, he had given Rajko Toroman more of the benefit of the doubt even if HE HAS NOT WON A SINGLE CHAMPIONSHIP NOTEWORTHY OF HIS QUALIFICATIONS AND STATURE during his 3-year tenure as SMART GILAS Head Coach. The only championships won by SMART GILAS were the 2010 Smart Philippine Invitational Challenge (also known as MVP Cup) and the 2011 SEABA Championship. Before the team was officially named SMART GILAS TEAM PILIPINAS, the Philippine national development pool for men's basketball team won the 1st China-ASEAN CBO Men's Invitational Basketball Tournament. MVP have a much higher standard of success for the high positioned employees that he pays very handsomely but based on the performance of SMART GILAS after 3 years, Toroman was not able to deliver.

rocketstar47
11-20-2011, 01:44 PM
Sinag Pilipinas wins 26th SEA Games Mens Basketball

beating Thailand 85-57

CONGRATULATIONS!

Alex07
11-20-2011, 01:59 PM
My favorite coaches are already past their prime ..... Baby Dalupan and Tommy Manotoc plus Sonny Jaworski in a way. I also have high respect for Joe Lipa and Ron Jacobs. Then of course Ato Badolato is to me the greatest local High School ever.

In recent years I am biased towards my close friends Dindo Pumaren and Eric Altamirano. Also admire Fil-am Erik Spoelstra in the NBA. I always admire Yeng Guiao as a PBA Coach ever since his RFM days.



If you know how MVP does it with his teams, he rewards those who are consistently winners.
Do note MVP also demands exclusivity to him as proof of loyalty, look at Koy Banal who guided the San Beda Red Lions to the NCAA Season 82 Championship after 28 years of no championship but they had to let him go when he could not give-up his PBL Head Coach and PBA Assistant Coach positions in the San Miguel Group. Thus Frankie Lim erstwhile Talk N Text Team Manager assuming the San Beda Head Coach which he has very much secured after 4 Championship and 1 1st Runner-Up placing in 5 Seasons. Despite a lot of lobbying made within the San Beda community to replace Frankie Lim as they do not like him personally or does not trust his coaching capability but MVP stood still in retaining Lim reasoning out that Frankie's winning record speaks for itself with regards to his decision.
Cases in point ....
multi-titled coach Yeng Guiao was Pepsi's coach when the team gotten the Mobiline name after the 1996 PBA All-Filipino Cup, after two conferences of not winning a Championship he was not re-hired.

Norman Black was already a multi-titled Grandslam PBA coach before joining Mobiline but when he failed to win a championship, as they only advanced to the semi-finals in the 1997 All-Filipino but faltered in the 1997 Commissioner's Cup, he was quickly dispatched.

Another Grandslam and multi-titled coach, Tommy Manotoc assumed Black's job after being his consultant but was only given less than two years of not winning a Championship and was shown the exit.

Eric Altamirano was a good PBA Champion coach but he only won the "Special Tournament" Centennial Cup championship in 1998 and without a follow-up Championship within 2 years, he is also outted.

Louie Alas, a Champion Coach in the MBA, NCAA, NCRAA and the PBL also took less than two years of not winning a Championship and he was fired.

Then there is controversial American Bill Bayno is US NCAA Coach and NBA Assistant Coach who quitted after less than a year of not winning a Championship and after Talk N Text finishing only at 2nd place in the 2002 Commissioner's Cup, he left the team, but without some parting shots on the PBA when he accused the league of favoring the San Miguel Corporation teams.

Paul Woolpert, another American multi-titled coach in the US Minor League CBA replaced Bayno. The Phone Pals struggled early in the 2003 All-Filipino and midway to that tournament, Woolpert left the team and was replaced.

Ateneo coach Joel Banal, who led the Blue Eagles to the UAAP title in 2002 took over from Woolpert. Talk 'N Text rose to the tournament and captured the 2003 All-Filipino Cup over defending champion Coca-Cola in six games. The team also qualified in the 2003 PBA Invitationals where four guest teams were invited. Joel Banal left the team for the moment to concentrate on his Ateneo Blue Eagles stint in the UAAP.

Ariel Vanguardia took over as acting coach, The Phone Pals did not qualify for the 2003 PBA Invitationals semis of the but not without controversy. Needing to win by eight points over Red Bull Barako to qualify, the Phone Pals deliberately fouled several Red Bull players in the last two minutes to force an overtime or even reached the needed eight point margin. The game turned out to be more disgraceful when Jojo Manalo tried to hit a three-pointer on Red Bull's basket. The incident led to a hefty fine and a five game suspension to Vanguardia. But Ariel stayed on as part of the Coaching Staff until he was fired by Frankie Lim after Banal resigned as Head Coach.

In 2004, Joel Banal resigned as Ateneo head coach to concentrate on the Talk 'N Text team. In the 2004-05 Fiesta Conference, the team faced San Miguel in the finals series but lost. After the disappointing finish in the 2005-2006 Fiesta Conference, Joel Banal was forced to resign as head coach.

Back as coach in the 2005-06 Philippine Cup was Multi-titled Coach Derrick Pumaren who had a previous stint as 7-Up/Pepsi coach 1992–1994 before the trade he had with Swift's Yeng Guiao. In the 2007 PBA Fiesta Conference, the Phone Pals barged into the Finals but after close Game 7 loss it sealed Talk 'N Text's third successive Finals defeat. The team traded Asi Taulava and was eliminated in the first wildcard round of the 2007-2008 Philippine Cup thus to rumors of team management firing Derrick Pumaren and his staff but after a meeting with the players, it was decided to defer the decision until after the next tournament, the 2008 PBA Fiesta Conference.

On January 28, 2008, it was announced that former San Miguel Beermen head coach Chot Reyes would replace Pumaren as coach.

Here's Chot's record with TNT:
In the 2007-2008 Fiesta Conference, the Phone Pals dropped at the second wildcard round against the Sta. Lucia Realtors to deny them of quarterfinal qualification.

In the 2008–09 Philippine Cup, The Texters and the Alaska Aces faced off anew in the Finals, this time with Talk 'N Text winning in seven games.

At the 2009 Fiesta Conference, Talk N Text lost its One-game playoff with Purefoods in double overtime thus failing to reach the Quarterfinals.

The TNT walk out against Ginebra during their Game 4 of the 2009-2010 Philippine Cup Quarter Finals and they failed to defend their title

In the 2010 Fiesta Conference, TNT placed 3rd after they beat Derby Ace in their 3rd place playoff game after they lost to eventual Champion Alaska 4-3 in their Semifinal series.

The TNT won the Championship in the 2010-2011 Philippine Cup after defeating the San Miguel Beermen in 6 Games in their Finals series.

TNT won the Championship in the 2011 Commissioner's Cup after an epic OT win against the Barangay Ginebra Kings in Game 6 of their best-of-seven series.

Talk N Text's shot at the Grandslam was foiled after they lost to Petron after 7 games in their 2011 Governors Cup Finals series.


In the on-going 2011-12 Philippine Cup, Talk N Text is leading the Elimination Round with a 8 win 1 loss record.
With Chot Reyes being the winningest PBA coach for the Talk N Text franchise, can we blame MVP giving him the trust and giving-in to the desire of Coach Chot for another shot at the Head Coach position of the National Team.

Judging on the turnover of Coaches in MVP teams, he had given Rajko Toroman more of the benefit of the doubt even if HE HAS NOT WON A SINGLE CHAMPIONSHIP NOTEWORTHY OF HIS QUALIFICATIONS AND STATURE during his 3-year tenure as SMART GILAS Head Coach. The only championships won by SMART GILAS were the 2010 Smart Philippine Invitational Challenge (also known as MVP Cup) and the 2011 SEABA Championship. Before the team was officially named SMART GILAS TEAM PILIPINAS, the Philippine national development pool for men's basketball team won the 1st China-ASEAN CBO Men's Invitational Basketball Tournament. MVP have a much higher standard of success for the high positioned employees that he pays very handsomely but based on the performance of SMART GILAS after 3 years, Toroman was not able to deliver.

great point sir nardz..but I think whoever is coaching,we need a legit NBA player to assure that we'll be atleast in the Fiba-Asia semi finals.

FilWelsh
11-20-2011, 03:28 PM
My favorite coaches are already past their prime ..... Baby Dalupan and Tommy Manotoc plus Sonny Jaworski in a way. I also have high respect for Joe Lipa and Ron Jacobs. Then of course Ato Badolato is to me the greatest local High School ever.

In recent years I am biased towards my close friends Dindo Pumaren and Eric Altamirano. Also admire Fil-am Erik Spoelstra in the NBA. I always admire Yeng Guiao as a PBA Coach ever since his RFM days.



If you know how MVP does it with his teams, he rewards those who are consistently winners.
Do note MVP also demands exclusivity to him as proof of loyalty, look at Koy Banal who guided the San Beda Red Lions to the NCAA Season 82 Championship after 28 years of no championship but they had to let him go when he could not give-up his PBL Head Coach and PBA Assistant Coach positions in the San Miguel Group. Thus Frankie Lim erstwhile Talk N Text Team Manager assuming the San Beda Head Coach which he has very much secured after 4 Championship and 1 1st Runner-Up placing in 5 Seasons. Despite a lot of lobbying made within the San Beda community to replace Frankie Lim as they do not like him personally or does not trust his coaching capability but MVP stood still in retaining Lim reasoning out that Frankie's winning record speaks for itself with regards to his decision.
Cases in point ....
multi-titled coach Yeng Guiao was Pepsi's coach when the team gotten the Mobiline name after the 1996 PBA All-Filipino Cup, after two conferences of not winning a Championship he was not re-hired.

Norman Black was already a multi-titled Grandslam PBA coach before joining Mobiline but when he failed to win a championship, as they only advanced to the semi-finals in the 1997 All-Filipino but faltered in the 1997 Commissioner's Cup, he was quickly dispatched.

Another Grandslam and multi-titled coach, Tommy Manotoc assumed Black's job after being his consultant but was only given less than two years of not winning a Championship and was shown the exit.

Eric Altamirano was a good PBA Champion coach but he only won the "Special Tournament" Centennial Cup championship in 1998 and without a follow-up Championship within 2 years, he is also outted.

Louie Alas, a Champion Coach in the MBA, NCAA, NCRAA and the PBL also took less than two years of not winning a Championship and he was fired.

Then there is controversial American Bill Bayno is US NCAA Coach and NBA Assistant Coach who quitted after less than a year of not winning a Championship and after Talk N Text finishing only at 2nd place in the 2002 Commissioner's Cup, he left the team, but without some parting shots on the PBA when he accused the league of favoring the San Miguel Corporation teams.

Paul Woolpert, another American multi-titled coach in the US Minor League CBA replaced Bayno. The Phone Pals struggled early in the 2003 All-Filipino and midway to that tournament, Woolpert left the team and was replaced.

Ateneo coach Joel Banal, who led the Blue Eagles to the UAAP title in 2002 took over from Woolpert. Talk 'N Text rose to the tournament and captured the 2003 All-Filipino Cup over defending champion Coca-Cola in six games. The team also qualified in the 2003 PBA Invitationals where four guest teams were invited. Joel Banal left the team for the moment to concentrate on his Ateneo Blue Eagles stint in the UAAP.

Ariel Vanguardia took over as acting coach, The Phone Pals did not qualify for the 2003 PBA Invitationals semis of the but not without controversy. Needing to win by eight points over Red Bull Barako to qualify, the Phone Pals deliberately fouled several Red Bull players in the last two minutes to force an overtime or even reached the needed eight point margin. The game turned out to be more disgraceful when Jojo Manalo tried to hit a three-pointer on Red Bull's basket. The incident led to a hefty fine and a five game suspension to Vanguardia. But Ariel stayed on as part of the Coaching Staff until he was fired by Frankie Lim after Banal resigned as Head Coach.

In 2004, Joel Banal resigned as Ateneo head coach to concentrate on the Talk 'N Text team. In the 2004-05 Fiesta Conference, the team faced San Miguel in the finals series but lost. After the disappointing finish in the 2005-2006 Fiesta Conference, Joel Banal was forced to resign as head coach.

Back as coach in the 2005-06 Philippine Cup was Multi-titled Coach Derrick Pumaren who had a previous stint as 7-Up/Pepsi coach 1992–1994 before the trade he had with Swift's Yeng Guiao. In the 2007 PBA Fiesta Conference, the Phone Pals barged into the Finals but after close Game 7 loss it sealed Talk 'N Text's third successive Finals defeat. The team traded Asi Taulava and was eliminated in the first wildcard round of the 2007-2008 Philippine Cup thus to rumors of team management firing Derrick Pumaren and his staff but after a meeting with the players, it was decided to defer the decision until after the next tournament, the 2008 PBA Fiesta Conference.

On January 28, 2008, it was announced that former San Miguel Beermen head coach Chot Reyes would replace Pumaren as coach.

Here's Chot's record with TNT:
In the 2007-2008 Fiesta Conference, the Phone Pals dropped at the second wildcard round against the Sta. Lucia Realtors to deny them of quarterfinal qualification.

In the 2008–09 Philippine Cup, The Texters and the Alaska Aces faced off anew in the Finals, this time with Talk 'N Text winning in seven games.

At the 2009 Fiesta Conference, Talk N Text lost its One-game playoff with Purefoods in double overtime thus failing to reach the Quarterfinals.

The TNT walk out against Ginebra during their Game 4 of the 2009-2010 Philippine Cup Quarter Finals and they failed to defend their title

In the 2010 Fiesta Conference, TNT placed 3rd after they beat Derby Ace in their 3rd place playoff game after they lost to eventual Champion Alaska 4-3 in their Semifinal series.

The TNT won the Championship in the 2010-2011 Philippine Cup after defeating the San Miguel Beermen in 6 Games in their Finals series.

TNT won the Championship in the 2011 Commissioner's Cup after an epic OT win against the Barangay Ginebra Kings in Game 6 of their best-of-seven series.

Talk N Text's shot at the Grandslam was foiled after they lost to Petron after 7 games in their 2011 Governors Cup Finals series.


In the on-going 2011-12 Philippine Cup, Talk N Text is leading the Elimination Round with a 8 win 1 loss record.
With Chot Reyes being the winningest PBA coach for the Talk N Text franchise, can we blame MVP giving him the trust and giving-in to the desire of Coach Chot for another shot at the Head Coach position of the National Team.

Judging on the turnover of Coaches in MVP teams, he had given Rajko Toroman more of the benefit of the doubt even if HE HAS NOT WON A SINGLE CHAMPIONSHIP NOTEWORTHY OF HIS QUALIFICATIONS AND STATURE during his 3-year tenure as SMART GILAS Head Coach. The only championships won by SMART GILAS were the 2010 Smart Philippine Invitational Challenge (also known as MVP Cup) and the 2011 SEABA Championship. Before the team was officially named SMART GILAS TEAM PILIPINAS, the Philippine national development pool for men's basketball team won the 1st China-ASEAN CBO Men's Invitational Basketball Tournament. MVP have a much higher standard of success for the high positioned employees that he pays very handsomely but based on the performance of SMART GILAS after 3 years, Toroman was not able to deliver.


The triumph of Sinag Team in SEA Games and the supposedly demotion of Toroman as national team coach are early Christmas gifts for me. . . I mentioned in my previous posts, that Toroman should be axed as due to his failures. He failed to steer Gilas to gain Olympic berth which was the main mission why the team was formed in the first place . . . Gilas was also formed in a premise as a developmental team but again Toroman failed to improve the games of its young players specifically the biggies.

Some Toroman's fans are saying that he instilled an effective system. . . what system? his over-reliance with small, diminutive guards really brought a lot of mismatches against rivals thus caused PI heartaches. . . Effective maybe with Douthit around as his focal offensive and defensive weapon but taking Douthit out of the equation, his system sucks. . .


I just hoped the next coach whether it's Chot Reyes or any other coach will not pick under-sized point guards, and that he must be assisted by an experienced technical team which may include a strengh/conditioning coach (like Alex Ariza did with Pacquiao) , shooting coach (like Chip Engelland did with Steve Kerr and Tony Parker), big man coach (like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did with Andrew Bynum) and most importantly a sports psychologist (so as to address the problem of breakdowns in the endgames).

elcian
11-20-2011, 05:12 PM
The triumph of Sinag Team in SEA Games and the supposedly demotion of Toroman as national team coach are early Christmas gifts for me. . . I mentioned in my previous posts, that Toroman should be axed as due to his failures. He failed to steer Gilas to gain Olympic berth which was the main mission why the team was formed in the first place . . . Gilas was also formed in a premise as a developmental team but again Toroman failed to improve the games of its young players specifically the biggies.

Some Toroman's fans are saying that he instilled an effective system. . . what system? his over-reliance with small, diminutive guards really brought a lot of mismatches against rivals thus caused PI heartaches. . . Effective maybe with Douthit around as his focal offensive and defensive weapon but taking Douthit out of the equation, his system sucks. . .


I just hoped the next coach whether it's Chot Reyes or any other coach will not pick under-sized point guards, and that he must be assisted by an experienced technical team which may include a strengh/conditioning coach (like Alex Ariza did with Pacquiao) , shooting coach (like Chip Engelland did with Steve Kerr and Tony Parker), big man coach (like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did with Andrew Bynum) and most importantly a sports psychologist (so as to address the problem of breakdowns in the endgames).

While I do agree with the points you've made, I don't think you can say that he didn't develop anyone. Just look at how the Gilas players are performing in the PBA right now. They're all top class players who can more than hold their own against "seasoned" PBA players. But with developing big men, I do agree that he failed in this regard. The only productive Gilas big in the PBA right now is Japeth, and I don't think his improved play over the past few weeks is because of Rajko.

nardy
11-20-2011, 05:29 PM
The triumph of Sinag Team in SEA Games and the supposedly demotion of Toroman as national team coach are early Christmas gifts for me. . . I mentioned in my previous posts, that Toroman should be axed as due to his failures. He failed to steer Gilas to gain Olympic berth which was the main mission why the team was formed in the first place . . . Gilas was also formed in a premise as a developmental team but again Toroman failed to improve the games of its young players specifically the biggies.

Some Toroman's fans are saying that he instilled an effective system. . . what system? his over-reliance with small, diminutive guards really brought a lot of mismatches against rivals thus caused PI heartaches. . . Effective maybe with Douthit around as his focal offensive and defensive weapon but taking Douthit out of the equation, his system sucks. . .


I just hoped the next coach whether it's Chot Reyes or any other coach will not pick under-sized point guards, and that he must be assisted by an experienced technical team which may include a strengh/conditioning coach (like Alex Ariza did with Pacquiao) , shooting coach (like Chip Engelland did with Steve Kerr and Tony Parker), big man coach (like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did with Andrew Bynum) and most importantly a sports psychologist (so as to address the problem of breakdowns in the endgames).

after 3 years of following SMART GILAS, am sorry but I have to be honest .... at Wuhan, Coach Rajko abandoned the system he established with Gilas. If you really followed Gilas from the very beginning, you'll know Coach became very much in love on dumping the ball to Douthit at the FIBA-Asia Championship and we did not see the fluid passing game which we were still able to see during their stint at the Jones Cup prior to Wuhan. Maybe its because he did not trust Ranidel, Kelly and Jimmy being able to absorb his system in the short period of time they joined the team. He actually allowed Jimmy and the other Pros to freelance and there's actually a lot of Talk N Text plays that were used. I could excuse said change at the 1st Round as we played minus Lassiter and Lutz and that forced Toroman to maximize the strengths of the remaining players but when the team was already complete, he should have reverted back to how Gilas really plays which is sharing the ball most especially at the knock-out games from the Quarterfinals upto the 3rd place game.

He got trapped into relying too much on Douthit, our bread-and-butter play was just dump the ball to Marcus at every offensive play instead of rotating the ball until it finds someone who is open. Instead of Coach Rajko using the PBA Reinforcements as supplements, he actually adjusted more his plays to the said players rather than the Pros adjusting to his system. There were a lot of plays that they used in the past which we did not saw at Wuhan. He lived and died on assumption Marcus would carry the team instead of using the multiple picks and screens that gets someone to get free for an open shot by either an outside shot or a slashing lay-up. My take was Coach Rajko really got pressured in winning that he does not want to risk using the said plays, which to be fair some of which are a bit complicated but I feel would have confused the opposition. Toroman in the end did not trust his own system and that's what dissapointed me the most. He also clearly shown that he is not willing to gamble on Japeth even if there were a number of times his presence on court could have been a difference.

As of now the players we need to be competitive internationally are Quality big men who can offensively and defensively play in the lane and also at the perimeter, wingmen who are consistent outside shooters who are not afraid to slash inside the lane and can guard effectively the perimeter plus tall guards who can effectively play the point and can be relied on to shot from the outside. But first thing first, we need to be more accurate in shooting our free throws and lay-ups as these basic things we have so many sorry misses.

carlz69
11-20-2011, 06:00 PM
i agree with you sir nardy that we really need to go back to basics. watching sinag play you can clearly see the need for a pure shooter. Too many turnovers, missed passes, blown lay ups, missed free throws. I think we should practice ft's regularly, even our discovery perlas lost thru fts.

I know chris tiu is a great leader but heck he did lots of turnovers in the championship match. Chris can't even knock down open jumpers. I don't hate chris but sometimes you wish he wasn't there. From a moment I thought he was the new "turnover machine" which was previously owned by barocca.:D

I hope we could have a half jap half pinoy shooter or even a half korean or hire a shooting coach for our nat team. The need for a shooter is a must in international competitions even malaysia got close to us with good 3pt shooting. .

tito thoots
11-20-2011, 06:11 PM
after 3 years of following SMART GILAS, am sorry but I have to be honest .... at Wuhan, Coach Rajko abandoned the system he established with Gilas. If you really followed Gilas from the very beginning, you'll know Coach became very much in love on dumping the ball to Douthit at the FIBA-Asia Championship and we did not see the fluid passing game which we were still able to see during their stint at the Jones Cup prior to Wuhan. Maybe its because he did not trust Ranidel, Kelly and Jimmy being able to absorb his system in the short period of time they joined the team. He actually allowed Jimmy and the other Pros to freelance and there's actually a lot of Talk N Text plays that were used. I could excuse said change at the 1st Round as we played minus Lassiter and Lutz and that forced Toroman to maximize the strengths of the remaining players but when the team was already complete, he should have reverted back to how Gilas really plays which is sharing the ball most especially at the knock-out games from the Quarterfinals upto the 3rd place game.

He got trapped into relying too much on Douthit, our bread-and-butter play was just dump the ball to Marcus at every offensive play instead of rotating the ball until it finds someone who is open. Instead of Coach Rajko using the PBA Reinforcements as supplements, he actually adjusted more his plays to the said players rather than the Pros adjusting to his system. There were a lot of plays that they used in the past which we did not saw at Wuhan. He lived and died on assumption Marcus would carry the team instead of using the multiple picks and screens that gets someone to get free for an open shot by either an outside shot or a slashing lay-up. My take was Coach Rajko really got pressured in winning that he does not want to risk using the said plays, which to be fair some of which are a bit complicated but I feel would have confused the opposition. Toroman in the end did not trust his own system and that's what dissapointed me the most. He also clearly shown that he is not willing to gamble on Japeth even if there were a number of times his presence on court could have been a difference.

As of now the players we need to be competitive internationally are Quality big men who can offensively and defensively play in the lane and also at the perimeter, wingmen who are consistent outside shooters who are not afraid to slash inside the lane and can guard effectively the perimeter plus tall guards who can effectively play the point and can be relied on to shot from the outside. But first thing first, we need to be more accurate in shooting our free throws and lay-ups as these basic things we have so many sorry misses.

I'll have to agree with Toroman on this one, sir Nards. Despite everything, I would have done the same thing. High percentage low post dump down. A lot of my colleagues here would have done the same thing. Stop the main offensive weapon first before I shift my play again. This is not just a haphazard system. It was designed to open up the shooters too. If they are not clicking, then stop the big man. We all talk about flexibility. Here he is showing us the best way to penetrate the defense and free up the shooters as Marcus was being double teamed constantly. Unfortunately, if we can't shoot free throws at this level, we are not likely to win. Let's stop kidding ourselves saying that the system failed us or the coach failed us. the system and the coach got us closest to getting to the world championships. We were a free throw or two away- not even a play away, free throws.. free throws..free throws (no tall guards to stop you, take your time, just free throws). It will haunt me forever.

carlz69
11-20-2011, 07:09 PM
found a nice tribute video of gilas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoWCwECFbB8

you guys might wanna watch the good times even though it's still heart breaking watching the korean game:)

nardy
11-20-2011, 07:40 PM
Its really sad that at all age levels and may it be men or women, its a glaring FAIL with regards to our Free Throw shooting. Almost all our losses could have been avoided if only we made our free throws. We really had so many crucial misses. We should have learned our lesson from those misses by Racela in 2002 but it seems our players had further detoriated with their free throw accuracy and thats across the board from the novice upto the professionals for both males and females. I remember when our womens team really sucked at least that time they do make their free throws. I do not know what is happening as it should be one of the first basic things in basketball but I do not know why the newer generation is not putting importance in mastering it. Back in the time of our country's glory years, our national players rarely miss their free throws.

tito thoots
11-20-2011, 09:12 PM
Its really sad that at all age levels and may it be men or women, its a glaring FAIL with regards to our Free Throw shooting. Almost all our losses could have been avoided if only we made our free throws. We really had so many crucial misses. We should have learned our lesson from those misses by Racela in 2002 but it seems our players had further detoriated with their free throw accuracy and thats across the board from the novice upto the professionals for both males and females. I remember when our womens team really sucked at least that time they do make their free throws. I do not know what is happening as it should be one of the first basic things in basketball but I do not know why the newer generation is not putting importance in mastering it. Back in the time of our country's glory years, our national players rarely miss their free throws.

Hi Nards,

Just attended a free throw seminar. Please disseminate to the local coaches. Just sharing the expertise around.

Main problem:
shots are missed 4 ways: to much to the left, to the right, too short or too long.

we can limit the problems to just 2: too short or too long by making sure that all ten toes are pointing to the basket.

Too short or too long:
Can be helped by free throw practice.

nardy
11-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Hi Nards,

Just attended a free throw seminar. Please disseminate to the local coaches. Just sharing the expertise around.

Main problem:
shots are missed 4 ways: to much to the left, to the right, too short or too long.

we can limit the problems to just 2: too short or too long by making sure that all ten toes are pointing to the basket.

Too short or too long:
Can be helped by free throw practice.

how about overcoming pressure? There might be a technique or exercise that could help. I remember Olsen Racela and Alvin Patrimonio were the PBA's Most Accurate Free Throw Shooter in 2002 and 1994 respectively but both succumed to the game pressure in their respective Asian Games of the same year they led the PBA in Free Throw Percentage.

The career averages for Racela and Patrimonio were 84.1% and 85.8% respectively.

Here's how Gilas performed at Wuhan:

Douthit 50 / 74 = 67.6%
Alapag 16 / 21 = 76.2%
Casio 9 / 13 = 69.2%
De Ocampo 5 / 7 = 71.4%
Tiu 14 / 16 = 87.5%
Lassiter 5 / 10 = 50.0%
Williams 7 / 15 = 46.7%
Taulava 12 / 15 = 80.0%
Baracael 6 / 12 = 50.0%
Barroca 5 / 6 = 83.3%
Aguilar 7 / 10 = 70.0%
Lutz 2 / 2 = 100.0%

Team 138 / 201 = 68.7%

tito thoots
11-20-2011, 10:53 PM
how about overcoming pressure? There might be a technique or exercise that could help. I remember Olsen Racela and Alvin Patrimonio were the PBA's Most Accurate Free Throw Shooter in 2002 and 1994 respectively but both succumed to the game pressure in their respective Asian Games of the same year they led the PBA in Free Throw Percentage.

The career averages for Racela and Patrimonio were 84.1% and 85.8% respectively.

Here's how Gilas performed at Wuhan:

Douthit 50 / 74 = 67.6%
Alapag 16 / 21 = 76.2%
Casio 9 / 13 = 69.2%
De Ocampo 5 / 7 = 71.4%
Tiu 14 / 16 = 87.5%
Lassiter 5 / 10 = 50.0%
Williams 7 / 15 = 46.7%
Taulava 12 / 15 = 80.0%
Baracael 6 / 12 = 50.0%
Barroca 5 / 6 = 83.3%
Aguilar 7 / 10 = 70.0%
Lutz 2 / 2 = 100.0%

Team 138 / 201 = 68.7%
statistics are all good but when it's winning time, put that aside as there is a lot more in the equation.
I have asked that same question as it haunts me every time. Unfortunately, the pressure that these players were put under cannot be placed in practice scenarios no matter what coaches do. the basics can all be right, the practices all done but when the pressure cooker comes, even the toughest succumb. I have taken coaches aside to see how they do it. The closest possible way to practice it is when they have constant down the wire games and the plays for the last 5 minutes are designed half court offenses not winning by fast break points. the better half court teams usually are the better free throw shooters down the wire. Design 5 minute practice games that run half court offenses- free throws and all. Have the team in attacking mindset in these games. No soft plays, the active attacking mindset is the one that will overcome the pressure. This is not just from me talking.

pachador
11-21-2011, 01:21 AM
the too short free throw can be overcome by bending the knees first, then standing straight as you release the shot to give a little more oomph without too much force on the shot

the too long can be overcome by consciously flicking the wrist when making the shot(not just pushing the ball upward), this will compensate for the tendency sometimes to put too much force on pushing the ball upwards as a player releases the shot... so even if there is too much force the ball will go in since the ball is spinning due to the flicking of the wrist.

most important - mental aspect - concentration on the shot , and focus your eyes and thoughts on the ring like when you concentrating with your rifle on the target. if you don't concentrate, you forget the mechanics of the correct shot, and the ball will not go in.

for both jump shot and free throw, its always important to flick the wrist. otherwise if you just push the ball upward it will have tendency to bounce off the ring.

to add another perspective, if the player making the free throw is very tired, he will have tendency to relax and not concentrate or focus and hence, the ball will not go in(mental aspect is forgotten).

Finally, as Tito thoots said "No soft plays, the active attacking mindset is the one that will overcome the pressure. "


Hi Nards,

Just attended a free throw seminar. Please disseminate to the local coaches. Just sharing the expertise around.

Main problem:
shots are missed 4 ways: to much to the left, to the right, too short or too long.

we can limit the problems to just 2: too short or too long by making sure that all ten toes are pointing to the basket.

Too short or too long:
Can be helped by free throw practice.

FilipinoDad
11-21-2011, 01:33 AM
No amount of practice can replace the pressure given by real-game situations.

Maybe a sports psychologist can help.

SupaRuki
11-21-2011, 01:58 AM
Wasnt too long ago when i watched a Serbian league match at Eurosport between KK Hemofarm and another team (forgot), there was about 20 to 30 seconds left in the clock and a one pt lead by Hemofarm. Then i was surprised to see Hemofarm intentionally foul the other team to let them shoot fts. They both make the FTs, but when i was about to think that they were gonna play defense they FOUL Hemofarm as well! Dang... Hemofarm convert their FTs and they were cycling thru tactical fouling (about 5 times) until there was less than 10 seconds in the game. Amazingly, nobody missed any free throw during the exchanges and Hemofarm ended up winning the game after sinking an elbow jumper to get a 1-pt win. Weird late game strategy but the players' ability to thrive under pressure was a sight to behold.

digitalsuperman
11-21-2011, 02:54 AM
No amount of practice can replace the pressure given by real-game situations.

Maybe a sports psychologist can help.

i do believe exposing them on tournaments will help.somehow.:D

nardy
11-21-2011, 02:54 AM
I do not know if any of you guys remember the Underhand Free Throw Shooting.


PCLf3ltMsMI

Nz-T30WZKo8

V4eJSjwlD5o




Among the Best Free Throw Shooters in terms of Accuracy in NBA History are

Rick Barry 89.98% (3818/4243) his best season was 1978-79 at 94.67% (160/169)
http://www.clap.name/images/rickbarry.jpg

and

Calvin Murphy 89.16% (3445/3864) his best season was 1980-81 at 95.81% (206/215)
http://www.hickoksports.com/images/murphy_calvin.jpg

I am not sure but from what I heard why said shooting style is not being used by a lot of players is that it looks awkward and ugly but its also said if you mastered said style, the bigger is possibility that you'll end up with a very high accuracy percentage with Barry and Murphy as solid examples.

But the Highest All-time in Free Throw Percentage is still a Coventional Free Throw Shooter in

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5066/5586853020_d559a68a86.jpg
Steve Nash 90.39% (2,804/3,102) his best season was 2009-10 at 93.78% (211/225)

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/9899116
Best for a Season was Jose Calderon 98.05% (151/154) in 2008-09.


I do wonder if there are still coaches who favors the underhand free throw shooting style ????

yogaflame
11-21-2011, 03:16 AM
Along with Ravena, I'm impress with Rayray parks last SEA games. An excellent all around game. I just hope he will be molded into a SG/PG not SF. His skills will be wasted or even deteriorate if he is force to play SF. His 3 point shooting might even deteriorate( starting too see that he is losing his touch from the outside) if he is always ask to attack and post more like what they ask him to do in SEA games and UAAP. And he will be more effective for National team as a SG/PG. Well his NBA dream will not be fulfilled if he is molded into a SF. I think he needs to go back to states during summer to improve his skills. Same with Ravena, he should be a PG not SG. This two should be guard combo at the top.

digitalsuperman
11-21-2011, 03:20 AM
ronnathanielsz Ronnie Nathanielsz
@
@NoliEala @resly_baluyut I believe Toroman is out because he won't accept a consultant's job. Besides, he's got several coaching offers.

yogaflame
11-21-2011, 03:24 AM
ronnathanielsz Ronnie Nathanielsz
@
@NoliEala @resly_baluyut I believe Toroman is out because he won't accept a consultant's job. Besides, he's got several coaching offers.

Patay. I feel its Iran. If he goes back to Iran will be dead, Iran will be back into power. "Hay palakasan," they are lobbying Chot or Possibly Monfort loving Black :D . We are making the same mistake the Philippines Azkals did, that we replace a coach who just achieve allot for the team. The team who will get Toroman will be very lucky. While we settle for Drama Queen Chot and Ateneo Lover Black.

FARIDOON
11-21-2011, 03:26 AM
I'll have to agree with Toroman on this one, sir Nards. Despite everything, I would have done the same thing. High percentage low post dump down. A lot of my colleagues here would have done the same thing. Stop the main offensive weapon first before I shift my play again. This is not just a haphazard system. It was designed to open up the shooters too. If they are not clicking, then stop the big man. We all talk about flexibility. Here he is showing us the best way to penetrate the defense and free up the shooters as Marcus was being double teamed constantly. Unfortunately, if we can't shoot free throws at this level, we are not likely to win. Let's stop kidding ourselves saying that the system failed us or the coach failed us. the system and the coach got us closest to getting to the world championships. We were a free throw or two away- not even a play away, free throws.. free throws..free throws (no tall guards to stop you, take your time, just free throws). It will haunt me forever.

Your assumption really tells us that Philippines really don't need Toroman, many local coaches can do what Toroman did in Wuhan, dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit...:D:D:D:D:p:p

geo
11-21-2011, 04:03 AM
well, as toroman said, he sticks to what he believe is the right thing to do even though it looks likes he is digging his own grave.... From what I heard from the Pangilinan adjutants, he did dug his own grave:D:D:D

dtfernando
11-21-2011, 05:36 AM
Nardy nails it again. Toro simply made the worst adjustment mistakes possible at the worst possible times in Wuhan. The quality of his in-game coaching collapsed, and his players panicked, and he should remain unforgiven because of that.


after 3 years of following SMART GILAS, am sorry but I have to be honest .... at Wuhan, Coach Rajko abandoned the system he established with Gilas. If you really followed Gilas from the very beginning, you'll know Coach became very much in love on dumping the ball to Douthit at the FIBA-Asia Championship and we did not see the fluid passing game which we were still able to see during their stint at the Jones Cup prior to Wuhan. Maybe its because he did not trust Ranidel, Kelly and Jimmy being able to absorb his system in the short period of time they joined the team. He actually allowed Jimmy and the other Pros to freelance and there's actually a lot of Talk N Text plays that were used. I could excuse said change at the 1st Round as we played minus Lassiter and Lutz and that forced Toroman to maximize the strengths of the remaining players but when the team was already complete, he should have reverted back to how Gilas really plays which is sharing the ball most especially at the knock-out games from the Quarterfinals upto the 3rd place game.

He got trapped into relying too much on Douthit, our bread-and-butter play was just dump the ball to Marcus at every offensive play instead of rotating the ball until it finds someone who is open. Instead of Coach Rajko using the PBA Reinforcements as supplements, he actually adjusted more his plays to the said players rather than the Pros adjusting to his system. There were a lot of plays that they used in the past which we did not saw at Wuhan. He lived and died on assumption Marcus would carry the team instead of using the multiple picks and screens that gets someone to get free for an open shot by either an outside shot or a slashing lay-up. My take was Coach Rajko really got pressured in winning that he does not want to risk using the said plays, which to be fair some of which are a bit complicated but I feel would have confused the opposition. Toroman in the end did not trust his own system and that's what dissapointed me the most. He also clearly shown that he is not willing to gamble on Japeth even if there were a number of times his presence on court could have been a difference.

As of now the players we need to be competitive internationally are Quality big men who can offensively and defensively play in the lane and also at the perimeter, wingmen who are consistent outside shooters who are not afraid to slash inside the lane and can guard effectively the perimeter plus tall guards who can effectively play the point and can be relied on to shot from the outside. But first thing first, we need to be more accurate in shooting our free throws and lay-ups as these basic things we have so many sorry misses.

yogaflame
11-21-2011, 05:43 AM
So lets get a different foreign coach , maybe pirate the coach or jordan who has excellent credential or the Japan coach. No offense I dont trust local coaches system especially Chot and Black in international games.

Silent Killer
11-21-2011, 05:55 AM
So lets get a different foreign coach , maybe pirate the coach or jordan who has excellent credential or the Japan coach. No offense I dont trust local coaches system especially Chot and Black in international games.

who's the best available foreign head coach around?

digitalsuperman
11-21-2011, 06:09 AM
ey guys. do you think it would be good for our team to get a multi-titled american coach? :confused:

pachador
11-21-2011, 06:16 AM
a european or south american coach with lots of FIBA experience is better


ey guys. do you think it would be good for our team to get a multi-titled american coach? :confused:

zuma169
11-21-2011, 07:02 AM
at this point, this is where i respectfully disagree with sir nardy and some people here in the forum..

for me, i will not blame anyone for the shortcomings in wuhan.. it is the whole SBP GILAS program that failed period.. it is not only toroman, it is not only eala who is the brainchild.. it is not only the PBA.. it is a collective failure of all stakeholders..

from the very start i was a skeptical about having a 3 year program consisting of collegiate players from the Philippines and abroad.. i told myself yes this will work to some extent.. what do i mean, i mean these players will develop (and yes they indeed developed as shown in their PBA stints currently) but they will not bring us to the promise land.. they will not bring home the bacon.. and why do i say this.. i say this because it takes mental guts, it takes toughness to win championships and that is where our college dudes will fail.. only professional players will have that ANGAS that toughness to go all the way..

yes toroman relied basically on douthit and the talents of williams, de ocampo and alapag.. but given certain situations, i would do so as well.. because they have the mental toughness (though the freethrows of williams in the bronze medal game was a bummer) but in general, our kiddos from college will not develop their angas in "invitational tournaments".. i mean why do you think argentina, spain, brazil, france, USA, china, iran bring in their professional players and not amateurs and develop them for 3 years???

it is a misconception that iran also had the same program as GILAS.. remember, the Iranian players were professionals already unlike our GILAS boys who were collegiate stars.. AND most importantly, they were the best players of Iran unlike the GILAS boys - if you know what i mean..

so for me the whole program failed and not just the coach, the founder, the management, etc..

so SBP must brainstorm and really dig deep and find out what really transpired and what can be done with present circumstances.. i still am not confident with our local coaches and i don't care whether it is MVPs money or not.. i still firmly believe that even if MVP is the sole sponsor, he has the right to name whoever he wishes.. yes he has the right because it is his money.. but his right is not necessarily what is righteous..

i still want an unbiased foreign coach to handle our national team period..

toikins
11-21-2011, 07:21 AM
slovenia's coach or brazil's coach..employs the same basketball as toroman.
Can play at different level and employs intelligent team play.

pinoy coach employs system that is not good. it is just entertaining and arousing. :D but its not good for international game. the win is hard earned and losses are massacre/outplayed in nature.

digitalsuperman
11-21-2011, 07:35 AM
After golden SEA Games quest, SBP to focus on Gilas II (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/11/21/11/after-golden-sea-games-quest-sbp-focus-gilas-ii)

JAKARTA – Done keeping the country's reign in the SEA Games, the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas will now attend to its program for the elite men's team bidding to make the 2014 World Championship.

Members of the triumphant Sinag Pilipinas here are likely to be the premier candidates for "Gilas II," which will be formed soon and given extensive training for the 2013 FIBA Asia.

"We didn't talk about Gilas II here as we wanted the players to focus on winning the championship here," said Gilas operations director Butch Antonio.

"But now that the mission here is done, yes I can say that the SBP already has a plan for Gilas II. These players are likely to make the pool," Antonio added.

Antonio bared that the SBP leadership has laid down a formula, starting with the formation of a pool of coaches who will be candidates to be the national head coach.

Among those being considered are Black and PBA coaches Chot Reyes, Ryan Gregorio, Tim Cone and Jong Uichico.

"Tim Cone and Jong Uichico will be asked if they’re willing to join the program," said Antonio.

Apparently, Black, Reyes and Gregorio have already been aware of the program with all three working with the teams of SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan.

Apart from coaching Talk n Text and Meralco, respectively, Reyes and Gregorio have served the Pangilinan-led cage federation as deputies to Serbian coach Rajko Toroman in the last Asian joust.

Toroman's contract as coach of the national team has expired but will still be invited to be part of the Gilas II program.

"It's up to him if he wants to be part of the pool," said Antonio.

Most likely, Toroman would be serving as consultant to a Filipino head coach.

Black said the young collegiate stars getting the job done here indicated a bright future for Philippine basketball.

FIBA Asia veteran Chris Tiu and his younger teammates, who trained together for only three weeks, had a dominant showing in the 2011 SEAG, scoring a lopsided win in all their five games.

"What's amazing about this team is it's a young team. It shows that we have a bright future ahead of us," said Black.

Most have yet to complete their collegiate playing years and these include seven-foot center Greg Slaughter.

"He still has one year of collegiate eligibility so may not turn pro yet," said Antonio.

"We may well have young good talents in the pool. Then there would be the PBA players," Antonio added.

In 2013, the goal is to make the top three in FIBA Asia to qualify for the 2014 World Championship.

tito thoots
11-21-2011, 07:41 AM
Your assumption really tells us that Philippines really don't need Toroman, many local coaches can do what Toroman did in Wuhan, dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit and dump the ball to Douthit...:D:D:D:D:p:p

I beg your pardon for my oversimplistic view on the situation. I guess either I'm getting too old for this or too much "kiwi bacon has clouded what is left of my myelin sheath to process complex situations. Either way,I believe that you deserve more than an oversimplified view of an old man with greying hair.
Dump it down to Douthit and get the hell out of there. Easy stuff that even barangay coaches can employ if they were given the situation and far cheaper as well.
Are we that lucky that in a medal game for FIBA asia, a world FIBA qualifying at that, any Tom,dick and Juan de la Cruz could have taken over.
But it's not that simple. The team knew how to employ the hedge to offset the picks that frees up the shooters. They knew what tempo to employ that would have been to our advantage and not for the korean shooters. The coach would have rotated his team well to send the best possible match ups for the players on the court.
Let's face it- the game was ours for the taking, we defended the shooters well, our shooters were clicking, Marcus was dominating the paint both offensively and defensively. We were winning up until the "big Freeze".
We froze at a time that we should have been at our best.
Was there a better offensive set/sets that they could have used?
Could Japeth have been the game changer?
Why did we freeze?

Some answers will never be answered at all. But how can we be placed in such an advantageous situation again that the outcome of the game was to be decided by the easiest of ways- unguarded free throws. Or maybe it's not as easy as it sounds.

How do we move forward from here? a new coach, a new system, new players.

How do we stop another big freeze from happening? a psychologist, new training methods.

For me and I know that a lot will disagree. There are too many unknowns in the equation. The solution will be further from happening if we employ a new coach and or system. Hopefully I'm wrong. maybe coach chot is a better mimic than I think he is...

I hope I did not disappoint this time around..

Alex07
11-21-2011, 07:58 AM
if we get a local coach..no matter who he is..i bet my pwet he'll have more dump the ball plays than toroman..who could blame him? only if our shooters were more consistent.

Silent Killer
11-21-2011, 08:26 AM
the old school playbook. dump the ball to big man and he'll do the rest.

analyzed
11-21-2011, 08:54 AM
If you're looking for a system and a coach who suits the Philippine brand of play and is expereinced internationally look at coach Rubén Magnano system (current Brazil coach, and Olympic coach of Argentinas 2004 Gold medal team) his style a combination of players (manu) creativness and multiple flex screens "Princeton's flex screens". Magano however is probably not available. His Argentinan Gold medal team described as the "Golden generation" (Manu, Scola, Nacioni, Oberto, Delfino) is arguably the best passing team in the history of international basketball. I've met some coaches of the Argentina governing body for basketball in the past, discussing how they do things.

My other influences and favourite coaches are Tad Baldwin (new Zealand and current Jordan coach) I've heard him speak before and he really is an inspirational guy. In the NBA a admire the Spurs Popovich system. His Philosophy is very smart. Example he never sends a double team from defenders in the corner. (meaning he plays the odds, he rather give up a contested inside shot worth 2 points than free three point shot, makes total sense 40 % from three equates to 60 % which is greater than 50 % (normal FG %). and of course who can forget Ron Jacobs. (as a kid i was amazed with how he would captialised on the rules to his full advantage. e.g. fake injuries to call timeouts in the PBA)

As to the debate about Toroman, you know my sentiments, no point reiterating them again. All I can say it's so much easier to judge things as a spectator as compared to being in the thick of the action. Yes Toroman has made mistakes in the most curcial moments , just like all coaches.

JAMSKIE
11-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Patay. I feel its Iran. If he goes back to Iran will be dead, Iran will be back into power. "Hay palakasan," they are lobbying Chot or Possibly Monfort loving Black :D . We are making the same mistake the Philippines Azkals did, that we replace a coach who just achieve allot for the team. The team who will get Toroman will be very lucky. While we settle for Drama Queen Chot and Ateneo Lover Black.

Agree w/ U! I'm one of those who strongly opposes the idea of replacing Rajko Toroman as Nat'l. team head coach. Our basketball leaders have this habit of constantly changing coaches tournament after tournament. I have followed Philippine basketball since 1990 & I know many different coaches handled our Philippine nat'l. team in international tournaments such as the Asian Games & FIBA-Asia Men's Tournament. We went from Robert Jaworski, to Joe Lipa, to Norman Black, to Tembong Melencio, to Tim Cone, to Jong Uichico, to Chot Reyes to Yeng Guiao to Rajko Toroman, in our effort to finding the right coach that would lead us back towards basketball supremacy in asia. But do we realize that perhaps one of the reasons of our failure to put Phl. basketball back to it's lofty placing in Asian basketball might be our habit constantly changing the coach & the lack of continuity of the program?

Would you believe that for the last 14 major Asian cage tournaments (Asian Games & FIBA-asia Men's championships) in 20 years, 13 different coaches handled our nat'l. team? Yet, what did this habit of constantly changing coaches bring Phl. basketball? How far did this stupid practice of ours of always changing the coach tournament after tournament bring Phl. basketball? Haven't we learned our lessons all these years of joining international competitions?

I strongly believe that our 4th place finish in this year's FIBA-Asia Men's Championships was an indication that Phl. basketball is in the right direction & on it's way towards making a come back as Asia's bests teams. We just need to continue the program, make only "minor" changes & fine-tuning. We need patience & perseverance.

But w/ the impending replacement of Toroman as coach, Phl. basketball is once again back from scratch just like it has always been tournament after tournament. The valuable lessons we have learned w/ the Smart Gilas program for the last 3 years would go down the drain, w/ only little to spare.

When will we learn our lessons? Maybe a day before "doomsday"! wag naman sana!

jesronne
11-21-2011, 11:50 AM
the problem with the past national team is they have no DOUTHIT... Toroman have Douthit at his disposal!

its douthit who give us 4th place...

JAMSKIE
11-21-2011, 12:00 PM
well, as toroman said, he sticks to what he believe is the right thing to do even though it looks likes he is digging his own grave.... From what I heard from the Pangilinan adjutants, he did dug his own grave:D:D:D

I don't think so! It's Philippine basketball's grave that Mr. MVP is digging in replacing Toroman as head coach of Smart Gilas! It won't be of any loss for Toroman if he is axed as Philippine team's head coach. There would be a lot of offers for him, better offers. That's for sure! In fact, it would be a big gain for a certain country that hires Toroman (I hope it's not an Asian country). Our loss would be another's country's gain. What if Iran decides to rehire Toroman to replace Vaselin Matic w/c lead Iran to a dismal 5th place in Wuhan? Iran would slaughter Philippine basketball in the future!

I hope I'm wrong!

nardy
11-21-2011, 12:18 PM
at this point, this is where i respectfully disagree with sir nardy and some people here in the forum..

for me, i will not blame anyone for the shortcomings in wuhan.. it is the whole SBP GILAS program that failed period.. it is not only toroman, it is not only eala who is the brainchild.. it is not only the PBA.. it is a collective failure of all stakeholders..

from the very start i was a skeptical about having a 3 year program consisting of collegiate players from the Philippines and abroad.. i told myself yes this will work to some extent.. what do i mean, i mean these players will develop (and yes they indeed developed as shown in their PBA stints currently) but they will not bring us to the promise land.. they will not bring home the bacon.. and why do i say this.. i say this because it takes mental guts, it takes toughness to win championships and that is where our college dudes will fail.. only professional players will have that ANGAS that toughness to go all the way..

yes toroman relied basically on douthit and the talents of williams, de ocampo and alapag.. but given certain situations, i would do so as well.. because they have the mental toughness (though the freethrows of williams in the bronze medal game was a bummer) but in general, our kiddos from college will not develop their angas in "invitational tournaments".. i mean why do you think argentina, spain, brazil, france, USA, china, iran bring in their professional players and not amateurs and develop them for 3 years???

it is a misconception that iran also had the same program as GILAS.. remember, the Iranian players were professionals already unlike our GILAS boys who were collegiate stars.. AND most importantly, they were the best players of Iran unlike the GILAS boys - if you know what i mean..

so for me the whole program failed and not just the coach, the founder, the management, etc..

so SBP must brainstorm and really dig deep and find out what really transpired and what can be done with present circumstances.. i still am not confident with our local coaches and i don't care whether it is MVPs money or not.. i still firmly believe that even if MVP is the sole sponsor, he has the right to name whoever he wishes.. yes he has the right because it is his money.. but his right is not necessarily what is righteous..

i still want an unbiased foreign coach to handle our national team period..

I am not putting the total blame on Toroman and if you backread on my previous posts I always reiterated that the said FAILURE is due a number of different factors that came the way of the Program in the last three years, some already discussed and some would remain confidential within the organization. I was just sharing my views on the way Toroman actually abandoned his own system during Wuhan itself, that itself is also not totally Coach's fault since we all know the Talk N Text Grand Slam bid was prioritized instead of addressing Gilas Team Chemistry earlier.

For me Coach Rajko is a very good coach but his ways I soon realized did not really fit our Filipino culture, its hard to explain as there are things that happened within the team which cannot be said out public. He fitted rightly in Iran whose players are also under the military. And another thing which I also earlier pointed out, MVP has a very high standard with regards to the employees he is paying handsomely, if he gives you your objectives and goal then you must deliver at the appointed time. However If only Toroman is a better communicator and motivator, I have no doubt MVP would have given him a 2nd chance.

This goes back to what Noli Eala was harping about after he left his Executive Director position, who should be really in charge of decision making in the National Team, the National Federation or the Sponsor? But still who is the head of both ..... its MVP. Being the Head, he calls the shots. Unfortunately that's the way it is in this way of life of ours.

toikins
11-21-2011, 12:33 PM
I don't think so! It's Philippine basketball's grave that Mr. MVP is digging in replacing Toroman as head coach of Smart Gilas! It won't be of any loss for Toroman if he is axed as Philippine team's head coach. There would be a lot of offers for him, better offers. That's for sure! In fact, it would be a big gain for a certain country that hires Toroman (I hope it's not an Asian country). Our loss would be another's country's gain. What if Iran decides to rehire Toroman to replace Vaselin Matic w/c lead Iran to a dismal 5th place in Wuhan? Iran would slaughter Philippine basketball in the future!

I hope I'm wrong!
better term is reinforce matic.
But it would be good if toroman would be ale to develop India.

Lets see what toroman's replacement could do.
Not just the results in scores but how well the system would hold on against the opponents.

JAMSKIE
11-21-2011, 12:41 PM
after 3 years of following SMART GILAS, am sorry but I have to be honest .... at Wuhan, Coach Rajko abandoned the system he established with Gilas. If you really followed Gilas from the very beginning, you'll know Coach became very much in love on dumping the ball to Douthit at the FIBA-Asia Championship and we did not see the fluid passing game which we were still able to see during their stint at the Jones Cup prior to Wuhan. Maybe its because he did not trust Ranidel, Kelly and Jimmy being able to absorb his system in the short period of time they joined the team. He actually allowed Jimmy and the other Pros to freelance and there's actually a lot of Talk N Text plays that were used. I could excuse said change at the 1st Round as we played minus Lassiter and Lutz and that forced Toroman to maximize the strengths of the remaining players but when the team was already complete, he should have reverted back to how Gilas really plays which is sharing the ball most especially at the knock-out games from the Quarterfinals upto the 3rd place game.

He got trapped into relying too much on Douthit, our bread-and-butter play was just dump the ball to Marcus at every offensive play instead of rotating the ball until it finds someone who is open. Instead of Coach Rajko using the PBA Reinforcements as supplements, he actually adjusted more his plays to the said players rather than the Pros adjusting to his system. There were a lot of plays that they used in the past which we did not saw at Wuhan. He lived and died on assumption Marcus would carry the team instead of using the multiple picks and screens that gets someone to get free for an open shot by either an outside shot or a slashing lay-up. My take was Coach Rajko really got pressured in winning that he does not want to risk using the said plays, which to be fair some of which are a bit complicated but I feel would have confused the opposition. Toroman in the end did not trust his own system and that's what dissapointed me the most. He also clearly shown that he is not willing to gamble on Japeth even if there were a number of times his presence on court could have been a difference.

As of now the players we need to be competitive internationally are Quality big men who can offensively and defensively play in the lane and also at the perimeter, wingmen who are consistent outside shooters who are not afraid to slash inside the lane and can guard effectively the perimeter plus tall guards who can effectively play the point and can be relied on to shot from the outside. But first thing first, we need to be more accurate in shooting our free throws and lay-ups as these basic things we have so many sorry misses.

U mentioned, "maybe toroman did not trust R. Deocampo, K. Williams & Alapag due to the very limited time that these TNT cagers spent w/ Gilas". Well, could U blame Toroman if ever he had that thoughts? For sure Toroman had confidence w/ these TNT cagers as far as skills & basketball I.Q. is concerned. The point is, how can, even the most skilled players or the most intelligent cagers grasp & get adjusted to a certain system w/ only 2 weeks of training? U know how important cohesion & chemistry are for a team sport like basketball.

We all knew why Alapag & company joined Gilas w/ only 2 weeks before the tournament in Wuhan. And Toroman has nothing to do w/ it. If only Toroman had a free hand, he would have demanded Alapag, Williams & Deocampo to join Gilas perhaps 3 months before FIBA-Asia, & that could have made the difference. Alapag & company would have been much more familiar w/ Toroman's system & would have jelled better w/ other team mates. Who knows, that would have set the difference between a silver medal finish & the 4th place finish.

The truth is, there have been some things that Toroman wasn't in control of. Things that set the gap between success & failure.

So why blame Toroman?

Alex07
11-21-2011, 01:02 PM
U mentioned, "maybe toroman did not trust R. Deocampo, K. Williams & Alapag due to the very limited time that these TNT cagers spent w/ Gilas". Well, could U blame Toroman if ever he had that thoughts? For sure Toroman had confidence w/ these TNT cagers as far as skills & basketball I.Q. is concerned. The point is, how can, even the most skilled players or the most intelligent cagers grasp & get adjusted to a certain system w/ only 2 weeks of training? U know how important cohesion & chemistry are for a team sport like basketball.

We all knew why Alapag & company joined Gilas w/ only 2 weeks before the tournament in Wuhan. And Toroman has nothing to do w/ it. If only Toroman had a free hand, he would have demanded Alapag, Williams & Deocampo to join Gilas perhaps 3 months before FIBA-Asia, & that could have made the difference. Alapag & company would have been much more familiar w/ Toroman's system & would have jelled better w/ other team mates. Who knows, that would have set the difference between a silver medal finish & the 4th place finish.

The truth is, there have been some things that Toroman wasn't in control of. Things that set the gap between success & failure.

So why blame Toroman?

I think Toroman has his weaknesses just like any other coach..but still Pinoys try to blame the coach when it is the players who are not really producing the wins.Toroman proved he can produce when he got Heddadi,Kamrani and Bahrami on his lineup....honestly we don't have such number of caliber players on the squad.. we only have Douthit on crucial games and nothing more.

As for sir Nardy's arguement on failing to deliver.In all fairness with Toroman the task at hand is not a PBA,NCAA or a UAAP championship.Unlike the other tournaments,here you have to win every game,your opponents are veterans of the WBC and the Olympics,not to mention you get to see a seven footer almost every game.Not to mention that the tallest guy we had was just 6 foot 10 and the next servicable guy stands 6 foot 6.Getting them to play toe to toe against seven footers and six foot nine monsters and expecting them win everytime is close to mission impossible.

Again not to hate on the PBA but if we have maybe atleast 2 or 3 more PBA players,then maybe we would have more offensive options come the crucial strech.I think relying solely on amateur players from the start really made a lot of problems in the Gilas program..but of course now you can see that those boys who were the vital part of the Gilas program are contributing heavily on their respective PBA teams.It only means that they gained something from the Gilas experience.

Now we will have to look for another head coach,another program..just like the past RP teams,we tend to change our system and disregard the existing program just like that.Maybe that's the problem,if something's broke,we don't fix,we replace,yet we encounter the same problem all over again.

I'm not against the firing of Toroman..let's find a better coach out there heck let's find a coach with NBA caliber,let's make sure that the next coach would a better coach with credentials..but the SBP has to deliver in making the best players available for that coach and they have to get the best players by all means..otherwise it's like having the best jockey ride a three legged horse in the kentucky derby.

carlz69
11-21-2011, 01:35 PM
i really hope we would find the coach we all been waiting for. The one that would bring us to the promise land. A defensive coach with euro style passing would be good. The coach must also be tactical and can both adjust defensive and offensive patterns depending on what opponents give them. Can't wait for gilas 2 so will have something to cheer about all year round:)

yogaflame
11-21-2011, 01:47 PM
Agree w/ U! I'm one of those who strongly opposes the idea of replacing Rajko Toroman as Nat'l. team head coach. Our basketball leaders have this habit of constantly changing coaches tournament after tournament. I have followed Philippine basketball since 1990 & I know many different coaches handled our Philippine nat'l. team in international tournaments such as the Asian Games & FIBA-Asia Men's Tournament. We went from Robert Jaworski, to Joe Lipa, to Norman Black, to Tembong Melencio, to Tim Cone, to Jong Uichico, to Chot Reyes to Yeng Guiao to Rajko Toroman, in our effort to finding the right coach that would lead us back towards basketball supremacy in asia. But do we realize that perhaps one of the reasons of our failure to put Phl. basketball back to it's lofty placing in Asian basketball might be our habit constantly changing the coach & the lack of continuity of the program?

Would you believe that for the last 14 major Asian cage tournaments (Asian Games & FIBA-asia Men's championships) in 20 years, 13 different coaches handled our nat'l. team? Yet, what did this habit of constantly changing coaches bring Phl. basketball? How far did this stupid practice of ours of always changing the coach tournament after tournament bring Phl. basketball? Haven't we learned our lessons all these years of joining international competitions?

I strongly believe that our 4th place finish in this year's FIBA-Asia Men's Championships was an indication that Phl. basketball is in the right direction & on it's way towards making a come back as Asia's bests teams. We just need to continue the program, make only "minor" changes & fine-tuning. We need patience & perseverance.

But w/ the impending replacement of Toroman as coach, Phl. basketball is once again back from scratch just like it has always been tournament after tournament. The valuable lessons we have learned w/ the Smart Gilas program for the last 3 years would go down the drain, w/ only little to spare.

When will we learn our lessons? Maybe a day before "doomsday"! wag naman sana!

That's what sucks with Philippine basketball, we always replace our coach even if he is successful we still replace them maybe because of "palakasan, padrino, politics,etc." I believe Chot or Norman is being lobbied by a "higher power". I hope they think about our country glory not Palakasan or awa system. If its not Toroman it should be another foreign coach, it was proven that foreign coach in any country delivers.

nardy
11-21-2011, 02:01 PM
As the SBP already said they are for continuity and that means retention of what was good during the term of Toroman. Then they would converge Chot Reyes, Norman Black, Ryan Gregorio, Tim Cone and Jong Uichico to brainstorm what are the other things to add to the present system left by Coach Rajko then add their own inputs in order to do a program which really fit us Filipinos while mashing together the best of the American, European and Filipino style of playing basketball.

What Continuity the SBP is looking at is the core players and players who can further enhance what we currently have. Jordan National Team had shown there is continuity even if they changed coaches from Mario Palma to Tab Baldwin. So with the Iran National Team from Rajko Toroman to Vaselin Matic. Even the National Team of Spain have been changing coaches from Lolo Sainz from 1993-2000 they gone to Javier Imbroda in 2001-2002 to Moncho Lopez in 2003 to Mario Pesquera from 2004-2005 to Pepu Hernandez from 2006-2007 to Aito Raneses in 2008 to Sergio Scariolo 2009-Present, what is constant is that the core players had been there thruout the years with the turnover of players is not that fast but the team had contiuously been among the top teams in the world.

Hopefully we can find the Right Coach but all indications are showing it would be Chot Reyes but before he is given the reins, the program would have been brainstormed by the coaches I have earlier mentioned.

I am not saying this is the best way to do it as I only just want to share to you guys a small view on some of the on-going plans that the higher-ups wants to happen as of now.

yakso
11-21-2011, 02:23 PM
Hey, I found this practice viceo of Marcus team with Gerard Green. Unfortunately the focus is on Green. But you'll see Marcus on some part of it. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiO9puhCcx4

zuma169
11-21-2011, 02:53 PM
As the SBP already said they are for continuity and that means retention of what was good during the term of Toroman. Then they would converge Chot Reyes, Norman Black, Ryan Gregorio, Tim Cone and Jong Uichico to brainstorm what are the other things to add to the present system left by Coach Rajko then add their own inputs in order to do a program which really fit us Filipinos while mashing together the best of the American, European and Filipino style of playing basketball.

What Continuity the SBP is looking at is the core players and players who can further enhance what we currently have. Jordan National Team had shown there is continuity even if they changed coaches from Mario Palma to Tab Baldwin. So with the Iran National Team from Rajko Toroman to Vaselin Matic. Even the National Team of Spain have been changing coaches from Lolo Sainz from 1993-2000 they gone to Javier Imbroda in 2001-2002 to Moncho Lopez in 2003 to Mario Pesquera from 2004-2005 to Pepu Hernandez from 2006-2007 to Aito Raneses in 2008 to Sergio Scariolo 2009-Present, what is constant is that the core players had been there thruout the years with the turnover of players is not that fast but the team had contiuously been among the top teams in the world.

Hopefully we can find the Right Coach but all indications are showing it would be Chot Reyes but before he is given the reins, the program would have been brainstormed by the coaches I have earlier mentioned.

I am not saying this is the best way to do it as I only just want to share to you guys a small view on some of the on-going plans that the higher-ups wants to happen as of now.

this sounds like a good plan if and when toroman leaves.. i just dont trust chot reyes..

all i want is for them to retain casio, lassiter, lutz, aguilar, douthit, williams... then add some pba and collegiate stars and legit fil-fors.. we will be good..

Skyline
11-21-2011, 03:02 PM
Retain Gilas I, core players such as:

Casio, Lutz, Marcio, Douthit, Tiu, Aguilar

Include some of the Sinag players:

Kiefer Ravena, Bobby Ray Parks, Chris Ellis, Clifford Hodge, Greg Slaughter, Dave Marcelo etc..

PBA Players:

Sonny Thoss, Kelly Williams, Ranidel De Ocampo

Realistically speaking, if other PBA Teams will still not lend players this are the players more likely we can expect for Gilas II. Including Banchero and Junmar.

nardy
11-21-2011, 03:53 PM
SEA Games fallout: Explain ‘flawed’ program–Trillanes

By June Navarro (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/june-navarro)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer) 11:26 pm | Monday, November 21st, 2011

MANILA, Philippines—Senator Antonio Trillanes IV has invited top officials of the Philippine Sports Commission, the Philippine Olympic Committee and heads of national sports aassociations to a Senate hearing on December 5 to shed light on the impending sixth-place finish of Team Philippines in the 26th Southeast Asian Games in Indonesia.


The country’s athletes will bring home a total of 36 gold, 55 silver and 76 bronze medals after today’s closing ceremony marking the end of the two-week hostilities among 11 countries held in the cities of Palembang and Jakarta.


“It’s a call for sports leaders to explain their flawed sports program,” said Trillanes, the newly installed table tennis chief. “The very dismal finish in the SEA Games is the ultimate manifestation of our (PH sports’) sad state,” he added.


Before leaving for the Games, the PSC and the POC had predicted a harvest of 70 gold medals from 512 athletes in 39 sports to improve on the country’s fifth-place finish in Laos in 2009 with the PSC spending at least P30 million for their participation.


“It means one gold medal in the SEA Games is worth more than a million pesos. Unbelievable,” said Trillanes.


He blamed politics as the culprit behind the country’s diminishing stature in the SEA Games and officials “whose objective is to perpetuate themselves in power.”


Trillanes was recently elected Tatap president along with businessman Jay Omila as chair, but the POC has refused to recognize their election.


“Politics has destroyed sports,” said Trillanes. “These officials forgot that their basic mandate is to promote sports excellence in the country.”

b3lowzro
11-21-2011, 04:15 PM
SEA Games fallout: Explain ‘flawed’ program–Trillanes

By June Navarro (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/june-navarro)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer) 11:26 pm | Monday, November 21st, 2011

MANILA, Philippines—Senator Antonio Trillanes IV has invited top officials of the Philippine Sports Commission, the Philippine Olympic Committee and heads of national sports aassociations to a Senate hearing on December 5 to shed light on the impending sixth-place finish of Team Philippines in the 26th Southeast Asian Games in Indonesia.


The country’s athletes will bring home a total of 36 gold, 55 silver and 76 bronze medals after today’s closing ceremony marking the end of the two-week hostilities among 11 countries held in the cities of Palembang and Jakarta.


“It’s a call for sports leaders to explain their flawed sports program,” said Trillanes, the newly installed table tennis chief. “The very dismal finish in the SEA Games is the ultimate manifestation of our (PH sports’) sad state,” he added.


Before leaving for the Games, the PSC and the POC had predicted a harvest of 70 gold medals from 512 athletes in 39 sports to improve on the country’s fifth-place finish in Laos in 2009 with the PSC spending at least P30 million for their participation.


“It means one gold medal in the SEA Games is worth more than a million pesos. Unbelievable,” said Trillanes.


He blamed politics as the culprit behind the country’s diminishing stature in the SEA Games and officials “whose objective is to perpetuate themselves in power.”


Trillanes was recently elected Tatap president along with businessman Jay Omila as chair, but the POC has refused to recognize their election.


“Politics has destroyed sports,” said Trillanes. “These officials forgot that their basic mandate is to promote sports excellence in the country.”

Politicians like him should be out of Sports programs if he wishes things like that to happen.

pachador
11-21-2011, 06:19 PM
Some posters have a linear chronological view of player development such that at the end of their so-called development, they will make it to the final 12 lineup. It is not as simple as that. Let me explain.

Lets say in any given year, Gilas selected the best and tallest prmising young players of the philippines, and developed and trained them for 3 years. Does that mean they wil make the final lineup ? not at all ! nothing is served on a silver platter for them.

First of all, if the said young players are not doing well even in practice games or low-level tournaments, then, we cannot expect the coach to field them in important strategic high-level tournaments.

Secondly,parallel to the development of young promising players, there are 3 other sources of players that have a very high chance of displacing these promising young players in the final 12 -- and these are - PBA reinforcements, Fil-Am recruits and the naturalized player. if any of these 3 sources can replace the promising young players being developed, then of course the coach will do it if he uses his commonsense and not his sentimentality. In other words, May the best player get selected.

So what happens now to those promising young players who were being developed ?? well, they will wait their turn - their time will come - if they keep improving. Example is 7 foot Slaughter -his turn will come in 2013, assuming he keeps improving, unless some future fil-am recruit comes along that is better than him or unless some PBA center becomes available who can prove he deserves a national team slot better than slaughter.. Again, may the best player get selected. Just logic and no sentimentality.

May the best 12 players always be selected for the national team !!!

Now, as for player development itself, what is needed in the philippines is local coach development because how can players in the provinces be developed if the local coaches specially in rural areas also need development ?? look what happened to Eman samigue - trained by Univ of mindanao coach :) he could be much much better sana. waste of height. The same with junmar fajardo - he has a lot of raw talent - but he could be much much better now if he was trained properly in his elementary/high school years.
The player development that is most important is the player development that takes place in elementary and high school years. By the time a player is in college, the player will have a lot of catching up to do if he was not trained properly in his young years - thats why you see a lot of "lampa" centers in the philippines that we always talk about as "sayang" - what a waste, etc. which is even more sad in a country of short people where every tall player counts.

undeveloped local coaches = undeveloped local players

tito thoots
11-22-2011, 12:03 AM
I am not putting the total blame on Toroman and if you backread on my previous posts I always reiterated that the said FAILURE is due a number of different factors that came the way of the Program in the last three years, some already discussed and some would remain confidential within the organization. I was just sharing my views on the way Toroman actually abandoned his own system during Wuhan itself, that itself is also not totally Coach's fault since we all know the Talk N Text Grand Slam bid was prioritized instead of addressing Gilas Team Chemistry earlier.

For me Coach Rajko is a very good coach but his ways I soon realized did not really fit our Filipino culture, its hard to explain as there are things that happened within the team which cannot be said out public. He fitted rightly in Iran whose players are also under the military. And another thing which I also earlier pointed out, MVP has a very high standard with regards to the employees he is paying handsomely, if he gives you your objectives and goal then you must deliver at the appointed time. However If only Toroman is a better communicator and motivator, I have no doubt MVP would have given him a 2nd chance.

This goes back to what Noli Eala was harping about after he left his Executive Director position, who should be really in charge of decision making in the National Team, the National Federation or the Sponsor? But still who is the head of both ..... its MVP. Being the Head, he calls the shots. Unfortunately that's the way it is in this way of life of ours.

Wow. Scary realizations on the goings on back home. Just to clarify, Sir Nards, I assume that the evaluations were based on standards laid out within the contextual framework of the job.
Who did the evaluations?
Was toro involved in this so that he can explain his side of the problem. (I'm not saying defend himself but to clarify issues that may have come out so that it does not become a "witch hunt".
Have both parties learned from this experience so they turn out better for it and not worse off?
Are we going to start off in a higher plane after this experience so we can better our performance or are we starting from scratch again?

Sorry for being too nosey. As it is evaluation time here and am just taking a break after doing my evaluations of some staff. I just thought I'd give my two cents worth while I'm in the mindframe.

reamily
11-22-2011, 12:53 AM
Now we fans should realize on what is SBP stance about the rajko issue

after all this time..

nashill
11-22-2011, 01:51 AM
did toroman really choose the gilas lineup? or was it somebody else?
i hated it who he was impatient in developing the other players like ababou, japeth, etc.. but looking back, i thought he really did a good job on tiu, casio, baracael and lassiter.

Joe Yabuki
11-22-2011, 03:47 AM
Wait, what happened to Trillianes and his BAP stint? Did he realize how corrupt BAP is? Or did BAP finally fold?

ZIMATAR
11-22-2011, 04:05 AM
the problem with the past national team is they have no DOUTHIT... Toroman have Douthit at his disposal!

its douthit who give us 4th place...

Maybe next time...we will ask SBP to send a one man team...Don't discredit our locals. I think it was the Gilas defense that sent them to Semis.

nardy
11-22-2011, 05:55 AM
Wait, what happened to Trillianes and his BAP stint? Did he realize how corrupt BAP is? Or did BAP finally fold?

He's still BAP President and now also TATAP President. He is now more active as a Senator who is organizing a witch hunt on who is to blame for our country's defeats internationally in different sports as he is actually the lead sponsor in creating a Department of Sports which will replace and be more powerful than the PSC and taking the job of the POC in forming the different National Teams.

I am afraid that this is against IOC Rules ad Regulations regarding Government Intervention and if Trillanes and our other good Senators are not careful, we might face IOC suspension.

Trillanes remarkably became more "active" pursuing Government's more active role in Sports after our Universaide debacle where he was able to watch personally the JuneMar Fajardo led-University of Cebu Webmasters gotten massacred in that composition and put the blame on both the POC and PSC for that stint's failure due to their non-sanction and non-funding of the teams there likening it to the controversial Dragon boat Team. For some reason Trillanes was made to believe the blame should be on the POC and PSC instead of the officials that sent of a delegation that is not prepared for international competitions. Be reminded that both the PSC and POC does not recognize the BAP anymore as a National Sports Association (NSA). Please also note among Trillanes advisers regarding sporting matters are erstwhile BAP Officials Graham Lim, Go Teng Kok and Trisha Abundo who are now the leaders of the Federation of School Sports Association of the Philippines (FESSAP), the only local university sports organization that is officially recognized by the International University Sports Federation (FISU), the organizer of the Universiade and World University Games.

JAMSKIE
11-22-2011, 06:00 AM
"Now we will have to look for another head coach,another program..just like the past RP teams,we tend to change our system and disregard the existing program just like that.Maybe that's the problem,if something's broke,we don't fix,we replace,yet we encounter the same problem all over again."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Korek! That's what we had repeatedly been doing all these years- to change the coach tournament after tournament! And maybe that was our biggest mistake. We never really had continuity of the program. Our 4th place finish in Wuhan was an indication that Toroman's system worked. Smart gilas may had fallen short of it's highest objective but finishing 4th in a tournament where our past nat'l. teams didn't do well either was already a big improvement. I think we just need some fine-tuning of the smart gilas program. But the last thing we need is major change & thats what Mr. MVP & the SBP are headed. Why replace Rajko Toroman who brought us to 4th place with someone (Chot Reyes) who could only bring us to 9th place in 2007 FIBA-Asia?

reamily
11-22-2011, 06:05 AM
We should just move on..

nardy
11-22-2011, 06:19 AM
Now we will have to look for another head coach,another program..just like the past RP teams,we tend to change our system and disregard the existing program just like that.Maybe that's the problem,if something's broke,we don't fix,we replace,yet we encounter the same problem all over again.

Korek! That's what we had repeatedly been doing all these years- to change the coach tournament after tournament! And maybe that was our biggest mistake. We never really had continuity of the program. Our 4th place finish in Wuhan was an indication that Toroman's system worked. Smart gilas may had fallen short of it's highest objective but finishing 4th in a tournament where our past nat'l. teams didn't do well either was already a big improvement. I think we just need some fine-tuning of the smart gilas program. But the last thing we need is major change & thats what Mr. MVP & the SBP are headed. Why replace Rajko Toroman who brought us to 4th place with someone (Chot Reyes) who could only bring us to 9th place in 2007 FIBA-Asia?

Most of you guys does not really know what kind of ride the SMART GILAS had gone thru, there were many problems which happened within the team that's not for public consumption. There was a lot of discontent within the team for some time with a possibility of mutiny ripe into happening anytime, that is something among several others which I feel MVP is trying to avoid experiencing that all over again. The SMART GILAS you saw are only at Face Value only but like in any organization there are a lot more things that is happening within the inside that's hidden in the background. Trust me that MVP had weigh all the pros and cons with regards to Toroman. It is within his good judgement that Coach Rajko is not the "EXECUTIVE" that he wants to run our National Team Program further more. That's why he offered him a Consultancy Position if he wants to but not as Head Coach. This is the last time I'll talk about this, I still believe Coach Rajko is a great coach but there is part of his methods and personality which does not jive with the Filipino psyche.

On Coach Chot .... well as somebody rationalized before, he is currently the most experienced Local Coach for international competitions. His winning record with Talk N Text is a big factor for MVP trusting him.

As reamily said, time we move on. As we cannot do anything more as MVP have other things in mind.

analyzed
11-22-2011, 06:35 AM
Most of you guys does not really know what kind of ride the SMART GILAS had gone thru, there were many problems which happened within the team that's not for public consumption. There was a lot of discontent within the team for some time with a possibility of mutiny ripe into happening anytime, that is something among several others which I feel MVP is trying to avoid experiencing that all over again. The SMART GILAS you saw are only at Face Value only but like in any organization there are a lot more things that is happening within the inside that's hidden in the background. Trust me that MVP had weigh all the pros and cons with regards to Toroman. It is within his good judgement that Coach Rajko is not the "EXECUTIVE" that he wants to run our National Team Program further more. That's why he offered him a Consultancy Position if he wants to but not as Head Coach. This is the last time I'll talk about this, I still believe Coach Rajko is a great coach but there is part of his methods and personality which does not jive with the Filipino psyche.

On Coach Chot .... well as somebody rationalized before, he is currently the most experienced Local Coach for international competitions. His winning record with Talk N Text is a big factor for MVP trusting him.

As reamily said, time we move on. As we cannot do anything more as MVP have other things in mind.

People forget that the difference between past national teams that where changed (continuity not continued) and this situation, is in this case the program is essentially continuing. Gilas is still continuing. The head coach might have been replaced and a few players will be replaced as well. But this is the first time to my memory since 1985 (NCC) that the national team program is continuing after a major Asian elite tournament. The Sponsor, Management, at least majority of the coaching staff and I believe majority of the players will be retained , am I not right ? So guys let's put things in perspective, this is not a change of system rather it is simply an adjustment with a few tweaks

JAMSKIE
11-22-2011, 06:42 AM
Most of you guys does not really know what kind of ride the SMART GILAS had gone thru, there were many problems which happened within the team that's not for public consumption. There was a lot of discontent within the team for some time with a possibility of mutiny ripe into happening anytime, that is something among several others which I feel MVP is trying to avoid experiencing that all over again. The SMART GILAS you saw are only at Face Value only but like in any organization there are a lot more things that is happening within the inside that's hidden in the background. Trust me that MVP had weigh all the pros and cons with regards to Toroman. It is within his good judgement that Coach Rajko is not the "EXECUTIVE" that he wants to run our National Team Program further more. That's why he offered him a Consultancy Position if he wants to but not as Head Coach. This is the last time I'll talk about this, I still believe Coach Rajko is a great coach but there is part of his methods and personality which does not jive with the Filipino psyche.

On Coach Chot .... well as somebody rationalized before, he is currently the most experienced Local Coach for international competitions. His winning record with Talk N Text is a big factor for MVP trusting him.

As reamily said, time we move on. As we cannot do anything more as MVP have other things in mind.

Well, I guess you're right, I really didn't know what has been going on inside Smart gilas during it's 3 year campaign. I could only speculate. Maybe Toroman had some falling out w/ some of the players. Maybe Toroman had some misunderstanding w/ the management or w/ the SBP people. I don't know.

Well, talking about moving on. That's what we have to do. Wala naman tayong choice, di ba? I just hope that Mr. MVP is making the right decision & I am wrong w/ my opinions. All these years, I had been supporting Philippine basketball regardless of who's running the show. I hope that whoever handles Smart gilas part 2 would lead the team to our much desired objective. I could never be happier than to see Philippine basketball wining the gold in 2013 FIBA-asia me's championship. Even if that would mean I will be eating everything that I have said in this forum.

Good luck Smart Gilas part 2! I will support the team, 100%! U can count on it!

nardy
11-22-2011, 06:43 AM
People forget that the difference between past national teams that where changed (continuity not continued) and this situation, is in this case the program is essentially continuing. Gilas is still continuing. The head coach might have been replaced and a few players will be replaced as well. But this is the first time to my memory since 1985 (NCC) that the national team program is continuing after a major Asian elite tournament. The Sponsor, Management, at least majority of the coaching staff and I believe majority of the players will be retained , am I not right ? So guys let's put things in perspective, this is not a change of system rather it is simply an adjustment with a few tweaks

You got it correctly. What was added significantly is by having an elite group of coaches collectively brainstorming on what went wrong after all these years and how we should go from here. Plus if it does push thru, we'll have a much bigger pool with 15 non-PBA Players and 16 PBA Players with majority of the Gilas Alumni being eyed as among the PBA players to be requested.

dtfernando
11-22-2011, 06:57 AM
Four to six players from the Wuhan team are still likely to be in the next national team. That wouldn't be the same as disbanding a national team. What the team needs is not necessarily a European coach. It needs exposure to European competition say against the many highly capable Slav teams, and the Spanish and Turkish pros. These teams are certainly much tougher than the South Koreans and Iranians. One to two months stay in Europe for tournaments, or at least scrimmages, against these teams is much better than ABL or PBA exposure.

crush
11-22-2011, 07:09 AM
I like Rajko Toroman and I will be forever thankful to his contribution to our NT and country...

And I also trust MVP and the way he handles the NT so whatever their decision, I'll support them.

OT:

Damn, sir nardy's avatar is hot! hot! hot!! :D :D

reamily
11-22-2011, 07:09 AM
the senior national team program has been continuing since 2007..

from 9th to 8th to 6th(Asian Games) to 4th..

Alex07
11-22-2011, 07:11 AM
having to tap Chot as new Gilas coach,I just think MVP is just cutting down on his budget for the team.We all know that Chot might be a bit(or a lot) inexpensive than a European or an American coach..well that's what I think..doing this,MVP might think or replacing Douthit by a younger naturalized player...or not...I just hope SBP will do it's mighty best in getting the best players in the land,may it be amateurs or pro players in the PBA.

Now we know that having a good coach and a good naturalized player only is not enough to get us past 4th place..we need to get the best shooters,the best athletic wing men and the tallest beasts that could dominate the post.I think MVP will also demand for having the tallest lineup possible.


I like Rajko Toroman and I will be forever thankful to his contribution to our NT and country...

And I also trust MVP and the way he handles the NT so whatever their decision, I'll support them.

OT:

Damn, sir nardy's avatar is hot! hot! hot!! :D :D

I trust MVP's insitincts in handling the best people and having the best outcome possible I just think that he asked too much with our last RP team.In 2013 we will have a better chance in qualifying for the world cup of basketball,having possibly 3 slots for Asia. OT: i wonder where sir nardz get his pictures :D

nardy
11-22-2011, 07:13 AM
Four to six players from the Wuhan team are still likely to be in the next national team. That wouldn't be the same as disbanding a national team. What the team needs is not necessarily a European coach. It needs exposure to European competition say against the many highly capable Slav teams, and the Spanish and Turkish pros. These teams are certainly much tougher than the South Koreans and Iranians. One to two months stay in Europe for tournaments, or at least scrimmages, against these teams is much better than ABL or PBA exposure.

that is what we are looking at. We're also eyeing a sort of home-and-away games with Australia and New Zealand National Teams. So we're hoping the PBA would reconsider on its stand of limiting the Pro players participation to the FIBA tournaments only. We cannot have part of the team learning something new with exposure in international training and games while the other part is clueless about it.

Alex07
11-22-2011, 07:21 AM
that is what we are looking at. We're also eyeing a sort of home-and-away games with Australia and New Zealand National Teams. So we're hoping the PBA would reconsider on its stand of limiting the Pro players participation to the FIBA tournaments only. We cannot have part of the team learning something new with exposure in international training and games while the other part is clueless about it.

again the PBA continue to be the RP team's biggest headache in getting players...it's like Gloria's promise of going back home once she goes abroad..yes of course she'll come back maybe in 20-30 years when she's too old or probably in a box..Yes,The PBA will lend it's players...two weeks before the tournament proper.

reamily
11-22-2011, 07:21 AM
that is what we are looking at. We're also eyeing a sort of home-and-away games with Australia and New Zealand National Teams. So we're hoping the PBA would reconsider on its stand of limiting the Pro players participation to the FIBA tournaments only. We cannot have part of the team learning something new with exposure in international training and games while the other part is clueless about it.

most likely pba will stop its games from this period (Australia-Tall Black series) maybe two weeks from June-July to have solid 5-7 games against nbl teams and maybe national teams.. if you want pba players part of the pools this games are needed..

nardy
11-22-2011, 07:22 AM
One of the recommendations I already forwarded to the SBP is the need to have a Shooting Coach .....

A number of our players are not shooting properly .... wrong position of the hands, wrong release rhythm, wrong positioning of the feet even wrong breathing.

With need someone who can tweak these things .....

We need Boss Danding's assistance in order to secure Chip Engelland's expertice. Erik Spoelstra is also good at this.

reamily
11-22-2011, 07:29 AM
I think dedicating time for that aspect is the best solution for that problem as MVP table has Ronnie Magsanoc in the wings.. maybe extra hour every week for foul shooting purposes is needed.. rember we can also bring fatige factor in shooting free throws as many players really are good free throw shooters but their form will lose once they play all out all game long (the williams's lassiter's, douthit's even Racelas)

but i think whats needed is additional games exposed in that situation where we facing a world level-top asian team (Korea) where everything is on the(medal or final slot on the line)and we need to close out ball games..

because were(the gilas) use to play catch up to top teams in the close losses to mahram and lebanon.. its the first time that we lead in a close game against a team in the caliber of South Korea

nardy
11-22-2011, 07:51 AM
I think dedicating time for that aspect is the best solution for that problem as MVP table has Ronnie Magsanoc in the wings.. maybe extra hour every week for foul shooting purposes is needed.. rember we can also bring fatige factor in shooting free throws as many players really are good free throw shooters but their form will lose once they play all out all game long (the williams's lassiter's, douthit's even Racelas)

but i think whats needed is additional games exposed in that situation where we facing a world level-top asian team (Korea) where everything is on the(medal or final slot on the line)and we need to close out ball games..

because were(the gilas) use to play catch up to top teams in the close losses to mahram and lebanon.. its the first time that we lead in a close game against a team in the caliber of South Korea

Its not only the Free Throws. We really lacking Pure Shooters nowadays.
If you look at the School leagues, the D-League and even to some extent the PBA .... there are no more streak shooters and I am not talking about 3-point shooting but even at mid range our players are missing majority of our shots. It's already a problem that we are short in height and having problems securing the rebounds but now we are missing those shots we have no problem sinking before .... sadly even doable lay-ups are getting harder to sink in.

I do not know if players these days play really good defense but after seeing the games at PinoyXtreme, I am really bothered with our shooting percentages these days. Also am a bit disappointed wherein shooters these days does not know where the ball would bounce after their miss which was once instinctly present in the shooters of the olden times.

Torjack
11-22-2011, 08:16 AM
Its not only the Free Throws. We really lacking Pure Shooters nowadays.
If you look at the School leagues, the D-League and even to some extent the PBA .... there are no more streak shooters and I am not talking about 3-point shooting but even at mid range our players are missing majority of our shots. It's already a problem that we are short in height and having problems securing the rebounds but now we are missing those shots we have no problem sinking before .... sadly even doable lay-ups are getting harder to sink in.

I do not know if players these days play really good defense but after seeing the games at PinoyXtreme, I am really bothered with our shooting percentages these days. Also am a bit disappointed wherein shooters these days does not know where the ball would bounce after their miss which was once instinctly present in the shooters of the olden times.

Sir Nards, Tony Dela Cruz is example of mid range shooter, though doesn't have good percentage in 3pt territory.

nardy
11-22-2011, 08:35 AM
Sir Nards, Tony Dela Cruz is example of mid range shooter, though doesn't have good percentage in 3pt territory.

Tony is among the dying breed that includes Renren Ritualo, James Yap and to some extent Gary David (he evolved more now into scorer and not as accurate shooter that he was before).

Jvee Casio could also score in bunches if needed be.

Have not seen a legit streak shooter as of late ..... before every team usually have one or two in their line-up.

At least a player in the mold of a focused Gary Vargas would have been good enough. But of course a Allan Caidic would be ideal. Gone were the days that we have a Adornado, Atoy Co, Hubalde, Florencio, Papa, Mariano, Estrada all at the same time or a time where the guns of Caidic, Jarencio, Cabahug, Marata, Gomez, Bobby Jose, Magsanoc etc were blazing.

reamily
11-22-2011, 08:43 AM
Its not only the Free Throws. We really lacking Pure Shooters nowadays.
If you look at the School leagues, the D-League and even to some extent the PBA .... there are no more streak shooters and I am not talking about 3-point shooting but even at mid range our players are missing majority of our shots. It's already a problem that we are short in height and having problems securing the rebounds but now we are missing those shots we have no problem sinking before .... sadly even doable lay-ups are getting harder to sink in.

I do not know if players these days play really good defense but after seeing the games at PinoyXtreme, I am really bothered with our shooting percentages these days. Also am a bit disappointed wherein shooters these days does not know where the ball would bounce after their miss which was once instinctly present in the shooters of the olden times.

the program should be implemented to our u16 players..players nowadays play on top of the rim using their strength shooters of past are not gifted athletically as the samboys and kelly.. it is really depends on the way you train and the type of game you play against

Startah
11-22-2011, 08:43 AM
@Nardy: wow i like what im reading i hope ECJ would extent some help to our national team..

Btw regarding Chip England is he the only Choice regarding shooting coach? since there is on going lockout in the NBA maybe this is nice time and opportunity to get some Good Skills coach and btw is SBP open to the idea to employ a Korean Shooting coach they have expertise on these things:D

and Judging the recent SEAG. Garvo lanete and RR Garcia has some nice stroke we need to harness this kids talent more..

AMDG2008
11-22-2011, 08:45 AM
Tony is among the dying breed that includes Renren Ritualo, James Yap and to some extent Gary David (he evolved more now into scorer and not as accurate shooter that he was before).

Jvee Casio could also score in bunches if needed be.

Have not seen a legit streak shooter as of late ..... before every team usually have one or two in their line-up.

At least a player in the mold of a focused Gary Vargas would have been good enough. But of course a Allan Caidic would be ideal. Gone were the days that we have a Adornado, Atoy Co, Hubalde, Florencio, Papa, Mariano, Estrada all at the same time or a time where the guns of Caidic, Jarencio, Cabahug, Marata, Gomez, Bobby Jose, Magsanoc etc were blazing.

How about Jeff Chan? I think he can be that shooter that we need. ---Has above average three point shooting (I think his shooting stroke can be tweaked just a little bit by a shooting coach to make his shots more consistent) plus he can drive and dish. IMO he has good bball IQ. has a decent size for pos. 2.... he reminds me a little bit of how Caidic played --can't explain it though

nardy
11-22-2011, 09:08 AM
How about Jeff Chan? I think he can be that shooter that we need. ---Has above average three point shooting (I think his shooting stroke can be tweaked just a little bit by a shooting coach to make his shots more consistent) plus he can drive and dish. IMO he has good bball IQ. has a decent size for pos. 2.... he reminds me a little bit of how Caidic played --can't explain it though

You are right, Jeff is getting there but a little tweaking might be needed for him to be more accurate and confident of his shots. That's something we saw in Caidic, Cabahug, Magsanoc and even Marata, they are really confident whenever they take a shot attempt, you can see it in their eyes or body movement.

AMDG2008
11-22-2011, 09:14 AM
You are right, Jeff is getting there but a little tweaking might be needed for him to be more accurate and confident of his shots. That's something we saw in Caidic, Cabahug, Magsanoc and even Marata, they are really confident whenever they take a shot attempt, you can see it in their eyes or body movement.

I hope he will be included in the nxt NT pool. His shooting stroke is the closest to Caidic's in terms of "effortlessness" and follow through. IMO he is a little bit quicker than Caidic....who knows Chan might turn out to be our Caidic 2.0. hehehe I do believe if given the chance he can play well for PH NT....

...problem will be if ROS management is willing to lend him. Plus is Coach Yeng ok with it?

acklium
11-22-2011, 09:38 AM
Sir Nards, Tony Dela Cruz is example of mid range shooter, though doesn't have good percentage in 3pt territory.

ehem Rip Hamilton

carlz69
11-22-2011, 09:46 AM
even our malaysian neighbors shoot well from the outside that's why they were able to stick with our sinag boys. Philippine basketball is now greatly influenced by american style lots of one on one break down moves, we all know we can't do that in international competitions because we lack height.

I saw an interview of allan caidic a few months ago he was asked why we haven't found his successor in terms of 3pt accuracy. He said when he held a shooting clinic school for children whenever the clinic will have a break kids would just play 1on1 or 3on3 and not really practicing outside shots. He said that kids nowadays don't have the patience to work out on a gym shooting only 3 point shots. Allan said that is the secret to his 3pt accuracy lots of gym practice even at night.:)

analyzed
11-22-2011, 09:52 AM
that is what we are looking at. We're also eyeing a sort of home-and-away games with Australia and New Zealand National Teams. So we're hoping the PBA would reconsider on its stand of limiting the Pro players participation to the FIBA tournaments only. We cannot have part of the team learning something new with exposure in international training and games while the other part is clueless about it.

Organizing a game with the NZ national team will be difficult, but not impossible (I've discussed the idea with the Tall Black's mngmt before, while there is some interest it will be a challenge) The challenge lies in, if this is the best use of their limited time to prepare. You have to understand that a number of tall black players play overseas (euroleague, US NCAA) and only assemble around a month prior to the Olympics or Worlds, during this time the focus is playing against elite european national teams, playing against an Asian team will not be a priority. Having said that, the tall blacks have played teams like Venezuela in NZ in the past, A more feasible tour would be against the Australain NBL teams, take note .. the NZ Breakers (an ANBL franchice) core is made up of mostly NZ national team members , so in a sense the games will provide Gilas a competitive expereince. The tricky thing about this however is this has to be done in the month of Sept (the ANBL pre=season) Where like PBA and NBA, teams are assembled and preparing for the seasson. It is very feasible to play against 4 different ANBL teams ( e.g. Sydney, Melbourne, Perth Wildcards, NZ breakers) BTW the breakers are the defending champions. Nardy if you want to pursue this , let me know. I'm in contact with the Breakers, (having been invoved with their kids promotional tournaments) . The other thing is there is a significant Filipino community in these key cities, Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland etc. So i think this will sell tickets.

acklium
11-22-2011, 09:58 AM
even our malaysian neighbors shoot well from the outside that's why they were able to stick with our sinag boys. Philippine basketball is now greatly influenced by american style lots of one on one break down moves, we all know we can't do that in international competitions because we lack height.

I saw an interview of allan caidic a few months ago he was asked why we haven't found his successor in terms of 3pt accuracy. He said when he held a shooting clinic school for children whenever the clinic will have a break kids would just play 1on1 or 3on3 and not really practicing outside shots. He said that kids nowadays don't have the patience to work out on a gym shooting only 3 point shots. Allan said that is the secret to his 3pt accuracy lots of gym practice even at night.:)

did you really watched the SEAGAMES dude?
the team is built with the advantage on Speed, Height and Atheleticsm
this is aint gilas to shoot 3s.

nardy
11-22-2011, 10:14 AM
Organizing a game with the NZ national team will be difficult, but not impossible (I've discussed the idea with the Tall Black's mngmt before, while there is some interest it will be a challenge) The challenge lies in, if this is the best use of their limited time to prepare. You have to understand that a number of tall black players play overseas (euroleague, US NCAA) and only assemble around a month prior to the Olympics or Worlds, during this time the focus is playing against elite european national teams, playing against an Asian team will not be a priority. Having said that, the tall blacks have played teams like Venezuela in NZ in the past, A more feasible tour would be against the Australain NBL teams, take note .. the NZ Breakers (an ANBL franchice) core is made up of mostly NZ national team members , so in a sense the games will provide Gilas a competitive expereince. The tricky thing about this however is this has to be done in the month of Sept (the ANBL pre=season) Where like PBA and NBA, teams are assembled and preparing for the seasson. It is very feasible to play against 4 different ANBL teams ( e.g. Sydney, Melbourne, Perth Wildcards, NZ breakers) BTW the breakers are the defending champions. Nardy if you want to pursue this , let me know. I'm in contact with the Breakers, (having been invoved with their kids promotional tournaments) . The other thing is there is a significant Filipino community in these key cities, Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland etc. So i think this will sell tickets.

tito thoots had earlier offered to give a hand given his connection with Mr. Melvin Young of Basketball New Zealand. But do appreciate any assistance we can get.

yogaflame
11-22-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm impress with Rayray parks last SEA games gold medal game. An excellent all around game. I just hope he will be molded into a SG/PG not SF. His skills will be wasted or even deteriorate if he is force to play SF. His 3 point shooting might even deteriorate( starting too see that he is losing his touch from the outside) if he is always ask to attack and post more like what they ask him to do in SEA games and UAAP. And he will be more effective for National team as a SG/PG. Same with Ravena, he should be a PG not SG, too short for SG amd more effective as a PG. Ravena and Parks are like Wade and LBJ tandem in Miami, :D But I see more of a Chris Paul on Ravena, while Parks like a Michael Redd or Harden.

I think every summer Parks needs to go back to USA join some leagues or how about rucker park in New york? Well his NBA dream will not be fulfilled if he is molded into a SF, he needs to improve his skills in USA thats why I think he needs to go back to states during summer to improve his skills.

Ravena and Parks, this two will be a deadly one two punch at guard in the future. I saw a part in the sea games where they are running the fast break, an excellent past from ravena and reverse layup by rayra. We shall see that play for along time in National team

rycorpz
11-22-2011, 11:10 AM
Tony is among the dying breed that includes Renren Ritualo, James Yap and to some extent Gary David (he evolved more now into scorer and not as accurate shooter that he was before).

Jvee Casio could also score in bunches if needed be.

Have not seen a legit streak shooter as of late ..... before every team usually have one or two in their line-up.

At least a player in the mold of a focused Gary Vargas would have been good enough. But of course a Allan Caidic would be ideal. Gone were the days that we have a Adornado, Atoy Co, Hubalde, Florencio, Papa, Mariano, Estrada all at the same time or a time where the guns of Caidic, Jarencio, Cabahug, Marata, Gomez, Bobby Jose, Magsanoc etc were blazing.

How about Larry Fonacier or Jeff Chan? Sir Nards

lovejones
11-22-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm impress with Rayray parks last SEA games gold medal game. An excellent all around game. I just hope he will be molded into a SG/PG not SF. His skills will be wasted or even deteriorate if he is force to play SF. His 3 point shooting might even deteriorate( starting too see that he is losing his touch from the outside) if he is always ask to attack and post more like what they ask him to do in SEA games and UAAP. And he will be more effective for National team as a SG/PG. Same with Ravena, he should be a PG not SG, too short for SG amd more effective as a PG. Ravena and Parks are like Wade and LBJ tandem in Miami, :D But I see more of a Chris Paul on Ravena, while Parks like a Michael Redd or Harden.

I think every summer Parks needs to go back to USA join some leagues or how about rucker park in New york? Well his NBA dream will not be fulfilled if he is molded into a SF, he needs to improve his skills in USA thats why I think he needs to go back to states during summer to improve his skills.

Ravena and Parks, this two will be a deadly one two punch at guard in the future. I saw a part in the sea games where they are running the fast break, an excellent past from ravena and reverse layup by rayra. We shall see that play for along time in National team

how about emman monfort? i think he should train hard in the states to prepare him for the smart gilas 2.0 campaign :)

Silent Killer
11-22-2011, 01:18 PM
how about emman monfort? i think he should train hard in the states to prepare him for the smart gilas 2.0 campaign :)

nooooo waaaaaaay!!!!! :D :p

pachador
11-22-2011, 06:42 PM
The importance of mental focus on shooting whether free throws or field goals is very important. you can shoot 500 practice shots a day but if your focus is distracted by a girl on the sidelines, your percentage will go down whether in practice or real game. Focus like a single laser beam on the ring when making a shot and focus with a 360 degree laser beam when dribbling(court awareness).

players should be tested for attention-deficit disorder because that means they have inability to focus and get distracted easily. they also need to be tested for ability to handle stress.

tito thoots
11-22-2011, 07:13 PM
The importance of mental focus on shooting whether free throws or field goals is very important. you can shoot 500 practice shots a day but if your focus is distracted by a girl on the sidelines, your percentage will go down whether in practice or real game. Focus like a single laser beam on the ring when making a shot and focus with a 360 degree laser beam when dribbling(court awareness).

players should be tested for attention-deficit disorder because that means they have inability to focus and get distracted easily. they also need to be tested for ability to handle stress.


Does that mean 8 out of every 10 basketballers will fail diagnosed as either ADD or ADHD. :D:D:D

pachador
11-22-2011, 08:21 PM
there is a spectrum in the severity of ADHD from very mild to very severe with very severe cases, you need to tell the person the same thing many, many times before they get it, and then still forget the instructions later. too much playing of video games can also accentuate ADHD. Some ADHD is good as it lets the player focus on several things in rapid succession, but too much will make one scatter-brained.



Does that mean 8 out of every 10 basketballers will fail diagnosed as either ADD or ADHD. :D:D:D

nardy
11-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Chris Tiu blasts ‘absurd’ state of sports

By Musong R. Castillo (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/musong-r-castillo)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer) 10:35 pm | Tuesday, November 22nd, 2011


http://sports.inquirer.net/files/2011/11/Chris-Tiu-300x163.jpg (http://sports.inquirer.net/files/2011/11/Chris-Tiu.jpeg)TIU: We can't lose to Singapore.




JAKARTA—There were several close shaves and moments of glory, and Philippine sports leaders can argue all they want that some silver medals should have been golds had it gotten a break here or there.


But overall, disappointment clearly attended the country’s drive in the 26th Southeast Asian Games.



The campaign was so disappointing, in fact, that even a Filipino athlete who went home with a gold medal in basketball still can’t accept the poor state of sports in the country now.


“If we lose to Thailand, to Indonesia, that would be OK for me,” basketball star Chris Tiu told the Inquirer Tuesday before joining the rest of the victorious Philippine quintet on the way home.


“But to lose to Singapore? That’s absurd.”


The Philippines capped its worst-ever SEA Games stint with just 36 gold medals, three short of the number it won two years ago in winding up fifth overall in Vientiane, Laos. But there were only 25 events that year and thus a fewer number of athletes were sent.


The 512-strong Philippine delegation fell short of their two targets in these Games: To improve on that fifth-place finish and to win more medals. Meeting either one would have been a success.


“I have nothing against the Singaporeans, but look at them, they’re very few, the base for selecting the athletes is so small,” Tiu said. “And when you look at them, they’re not even athletic.”


Tiu has a beef there.


Talents have been scarce in coming for the Philippines. Clear case in point: After Miguel Molina, a former Most Outstanding Athlete in the SEA Games, retired a few months go, swimming laid a big fat egg in Palembang.


Taekwondo and boxing produced the most number of gold medals in Indonesia with four each.


“We’re better than them [Singaporeans],” said Tiu. “We’re better than where we are.”


Bickering among sports leaders and national sports associations has practically slowed the discovery and development of new talents.


Athletics, the country’s best performer in past SEA Games, produced just two gold medals courtesy of old faces who have dominated in the SEA Games.


At least, Philippine Amateur Track and Field Association president Go Teng Kok had the guts to pin the blame on himself.


The Philippines started these Games third all-time in total of medals won, behind the overall champion Indonesians and the Thais. At the rate the country’s progress in sports is going, though, it wouldn’t be long before Vietnam, Singapore and Malaysia catch up.


If that happens, the barnacles of disaster clinging to Philippine sports would be tough to get rid of.

elisher
11-22-2011, 08:57 PM
it's ok to me to replace Toroman as long as we get Holt,Standhardinger,Jordan Clarkson,Pringle And Mc Gee :D :D

nardy
11-22-2011, 09:30 PM
18/11/2011
FIBA - FIBA looks at long-term growth

http://www.fiba.com/images/web/Events/10/FWCM/photos/daybyday/0912/tur-usa/usa/_192/Small_TiloTURUSA-01.JPG
Turkey vs USA. Day 16 of the 2010
FIBA World Championship in Istanbul,
Turkey. 12. September 2010 Final
Photo: FIBA/Castoria/T. Wiedensohler


GENEVA – FIBA held a workshop from Wednesday 16 to Friday 18 November in Geneva, Switzerland, inviting more than 30 of its top national federation members (including the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas) from all five continents to think up new and innovative ways of furthering basketball's growth on a global scale for many years to come, in line with the strategic plan approved earlier this year by FIBA's Central Board.

Over the three days, in an atmosphere of great respect, a number of key objectives were discussed, with the main one being to accelerate the growth and increase the interest in the game of basketball as well as in FIBA tournaments.

During the workshop, entitled "FIBA Competition Calendar 2017-2030", the FIBA member federations looked several years into the future on how to improve the calendar of basketball competitions as well as implement simpler and clearer formats and systems that respect all stakeholders of the game - players, clubs, leagues and national federations.

Additionally, ideas were exchanged on how to make the FIBA World Championship even more prominent in the calendar of world sport with a view to increase the number of national federations able to compete at the world level.

Thoughts were shared on how best to enable national teams to play regular and relevant games at home and as a consequence strengthen FIBA's member national federations in terms of organisation, promotion and revenues.

Other important topics such as women's basketball, 3x3, officiating and naturalised players, were also part of the discussions.

The findings of the workshop will be presented at the FIBA Central Board meeting scheduled to take place in Madrid, Spain, the weekend of 10-11 December.

Further work and discussions will be held on a larger scale within the basketball family during 2012, paving the way for the Central Board to make final decisions later next year.

FIBA

pachador
11-22-2011, 09:41 PM
nardy,

whats the name of your new avatar ? :D

potz05
11-22-2011, 11:52 PM
i really hope we would find the coach we all been waiting for. The one that would bring us to the promise land. A defensive coach with euro style passing would be good. The coach must also be tactical and can both adjust defensive and offensive patterns depending on what opponents give them. Can't wait for gilas 2 so will have something to cheer about all year round:)

Always looking for the best coach without having the best players around will never produce any significant difference from the failures that we had in the past.

potz05
11-22-2011, 11:55 PM
That's what sucks with Philippine basketball, we always replace our coach even if he is successful we still replace them maybe because of "palakasan, padrino, politics,etc." I believe Chot or Norman is being lobbied by a "higher power". I hope they think about our country glory not Palakasan or awa system. If its not Toroman it should be another foreign coach, it was proven that foreign coach in any country delivers.

Say that to BCAP they always have a say about foreign coaches. Come to think of it can someone enlighten me of a pinoy coach succeeding to win it all internationally? No 2nd, 3rd or 4th place finish. Just like what I said win it ALL. I know there is but hardly remember.

potz05
11-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Retain Gilas I, core players such as:

Casio, Lutz, Marcio, Douthit, Tiu, Aguilar

Include some of the Sinag players:

Kiefer Ravena, Bobby Ray Parks, Chris Ellis, Clifford Hodge, Greg Slaughter, Dave Marcelo etc..

PBA Players:

Sonny Thoss, Kelly Williams, Ranidel De Ocampo

Realistically speaking, if other PBA Teams will still not lend players this are the players more likely we can expect for Gilas II. Including Banchero and Junmar.

How can you expect, Thoss, Banchero and Fajardo to be part of Gilas II when you already said that you are already expecting other teams will not lend other players. Have you forgotten that Thoss is in Alaska. Banchero and Fajardo are both in SMC stable so good luck with that.

tito thoots
11-23-2011, 01:10 AM
Tony is among the dying breed that includes Renren Ritualo, James Yap and to some extent Gary David (he evolved more now into scorer and not as accurate shooter that he was before).

Jvee Casio could also score in bunches if needed be.

Have not seen a legit streak shooter as of late ..... before every team usually have one or two in their line-up.

At least a player in the mold of a focused Gary Vargas would have been good enough. But of course a Allan Caidic would be ideal. Gone were the days that we have a Adornado, Atoy Co, Hubalde, Florencio, Papa, Mariano, Estrada all at the same time or a time where the guns of Caidic, Jarencio, Cabahug, Marata, Gomez, Bobby Jose, Magsanoc etc were blazing.

Out of topic sir Nards.
Where is Steve Sarmenta nowadays (brother of Sev Sarmenta). He used to play for Ateneo . Then taught at UP during the later half of the 80's. Just asking as he was my first varsity coach. Wondering if he is still coaching. He has a good coaching head.

elcian
11-23-2011, 02:51 AM
One of the recommendations I already forwarded to the SBP is the need to have a Shooting Coach .....

A number of our players are not shooting properly .... wrong position of the hands, wrong release rhythm, wrong positioning of the feet even wrong breathing.

With need someone who can tweak these things .....

We need Boss Danding's assistance in order to secure Chip Engelland's expertice. Erik Spoelstra is also good at this.

Right Sir Nardy. I really don't understand why our players' shooting techniques have deteriorated this much. Whenever I watch FIBA basketball (the good teams), when a player gets an open mid range or 3 point shot, they usually make it. We only have to look at the Spanish National team and JC Navarro with his shooting exhibition. It was exhilarating to watch someone shoot the ball like that. It gave me goosebumps.

I know Pinoys love to play 1 on 1 ala NBA, but even then, the USA's top players can all shoot the basketball like crazy in FIBA compeition. Kevin Durant is an insanely unbelievable shooter who is 6'10 with crazy long arms. Kobe can shoot as well. The Americans have a lot og players now who've become much much better with jump shooting in general. Hell, LeBron (who is a so called bad shooter) averaged an astounding 60+% (or 50+%) shooting clip from 3 in one of their tournaments. That's efficiency and constant practice from you. That's what these players show which our players don't. Every summer, NBA players take time to just work on their games everyday (improve conditioning, strengthening, shooting, post moves) and that's the reason why they show great improvement every year.

Sir Nards, since you're much more into the thick of things, don't our players (PBA and Amateur) have off season workout regimens in which their focus is to improve even a single aspect of their game? Maybe they do and we just don't know about it. It's just that players here get injured too easily and seldom show marked improvement from season to season. That's especially truer now with the PBA season running 11 months instead of the 8 or 9 before which could have given them time to work on their games.

nardy
11-23-2011, 03:25 AM
Out of topic sir Nards.
Where is Steve Sarmenta nowadays (brother of Sev Sarmenta). He used to play for Ateneo . Then taught at UP during the later half of the 80's. Just asking as he was my first varsity coach. Wondering if he is still coaching. He has a good coaching head.

I'll ask, their cousin Joel is a close friend of mine.

nardy
11-23-2011, 03:41 AM
Right Sir Nardy. I really don't understand why our players' shooting techniques have deteriorated this much. Whenever I watch FIBA basketball (the good teams), when a player gets an open mid range or 3 point shot, they usually make it. We only have to look at the Spanish National team and JC Navarro with his shooting exhibition. It was exhilarating to watch someone shoot the ball like that. It gave me goosebumps.

I know Pinoys love to play 1 on 1 ala NBA, but even then, the USA's top players can all shoot the basketball like crazy in FIBA compeition. Kevin Durant is an insanely unbelievable shooter who is 6'10 with crazy long arms. Kobe can shoot as well. The Americans have a lot og players now who've become much much better with jump shooting in general. Hell, LeBron (who is a so called bad shooter) averaged an astounding 60+% (or 50+%) shooting clip from 3 in one of their tournaments. That's efficiency and constant practice from you. That's what these players show which our players don't. Every summer, NBA players take time to just work on their games everyday (improve conditioning, strengthening, shooting, post moves) and that's the reason why they show great improvement every year.

Sir Nards, since you're much more into the thick of things, don't our players (PBA and Amateur) have off season workout regimens in which their focus is to improve even a single aspect of their game? Maybe they do and we just don't know about it. It's just that players here get injured too easily and seldom show marked improvement from season to season. That's especially truer now with the PBA season running 11 months instead of the 8 or 9 before which could have given them time to work on their games.

am sorry to say but it seems players nowadays are not as dedicated to practice long hours in order to improve their shooting, one of the reasons I see is that there are a lot of distractions all around. Because in the olden times even if they are already playing in commercial teams, some players still have 9-5 jobs but still have time to make additional practice hours just to improve their personal game. Players today after team practice gives priority to other extra-curricular things rather than waste the time away practicing, things like social networking, online computer games, bar hopping, casinos, or even Fitness Gym workouts take most of their time. Or sadly its as simple as a mere "katamaran" as players who are more talented or athletic than their predecessors usually getaway with mediocre performance but they still get played big money by the teams. Then as pointed out by someone, the influence of the NBA and PBA had the younger players working more on their one-on-one moves than concentrate on improving one's shooting skills or other fundamental moves.

nardy
11-23-2011, 03:42 AM
nardy,

whats the name of your new avatar ? :D

secret ;)

elcian
11-23-2011, 04:20 AM
am sorry to say but it seems players nowadays are not as dedicated to practice long hours in order to improve their shooting, one of the reasons I see is that there are a lot of distractions all around. Because in the olden times even if they are already playing in commercial teams, some players still have 9-5 jobs but still have time to make additional practice hours just to improve their personal game. Players today after team practice gives priority to other extra-curricular things rather than waste the time away practicing, things like social networking, online computer games, bar hopping, casinos, or even Fitness Gym workouts take most of their time. Or sadly its as simple as a mere "katamaran" as players who are more talented or athletic than their predecessors usually getaway with mediocre performance but they still get played big money by the teams. Then as pointed out by someone, the influence of the NBA and PBA had the younger players working more on their one-on-one moves than concentrate on improving one's shooting skills or other fundamental moves.

It's really quite disheartening as we have a lot of talented players here in the local scene. It's just that their's always so much wasted potential. Hope our players would have the drive to continue improving all aspects of their skills. The more they practice, the easier and better they will be come game time. If they are true professionals, then they should be taking this to heart.

I do hope that Kiefer and Ray (and the new generation of seemingly talented players) continue their ascension of a better basketball generation. My only fear is that success gets to their heads and they stop improving. Am glad that Ray has decided to work out in the States during vacation time. That should get him back to focusing on his shooting and PG play as he'll be coming up against bigger, older (quite possibly) and better players. Whatever happens, I just don't want Ray to forget his natural game: a James Harden like slasher and shooter. For Kiefer, he just has to continue working on his jump shooting. It seems like he's not confident when he's taking a jump shot, but he has so much prodigious talent that I'm sure he'll improve rapidly in this.

Thanks for the input Sir Nards ;)

JAMSKIE
11-23-2011, 04:37 AM
that is what we are looking at. We're also eyeing a sort of home-and-away games with Australia and New Zealand National Teams. So we're hoping the PBA would reconsider on its stand of limiting the Pro players participation to the FIBA tournaments only. We cannot have part of the team learning something new with exposure in international training and games while the other part is clueless about it.

Nice to hear that the SBP is considering playing w/ New Zealand & Australian teams (or nat'l. teams). I believe we should not just send our nat'l. team in foreign competitions vs. Asian countries but we should also be tuning up w/ non-Asian teams whose level of basketball are some notches above the Asian level. We all know that Australia & New Zealand are world class teams. I think our past nat'l. teams played w/ professional Australian teams some years back. I remember our Asian Games bound Selecta-RP team handled by Jong Uichico tuned up w/ the Melbourne Tigers as part of it's preparation for the 2002 Busan Asian Games. I also remember that in 2005, the Sydney Kings tuned up with Chot Reyes-mentored RP-San Miguel national training pool.

I believe playing against foreign teams whose competitive level is above most nat'l. teams in asia would raise the level of competitiveness of our nat'l. team.

I hope that plan of playing vs. New Zealand & Australian teams, be it their Nat'l. teams or pro-teams, would push through.

JAMSKIE
11-23-2011, 04:55 AM
am sorry to say but it seems players nowadays are not as dedicated to practice long hours in order to improve their shooting, one of the reasons I see is that there are a lot of distractions all around. Because in the olden times even if they are already playing in commercial teams, some players still have 9-5 jobs but still have time to make additional practice hours just to improve their personal game. Players today after team practice gives priority to other extra-curricular things rather than waste the time away practicing, things like social networking, online computer games, bar hopping, casinos, or even Fitness Gym workouts take most of their time. Or sadly its as simple as a mere "katamaran" as players who are more talented or athletic than their predecessors usually getaway with mediocre performance but they still get played big money by the teams. Then as pointed out by someone, the influence of the NBA and PBA had the younger players working more on their one-on-one moves than concentrate on improving one's shooting skills or other fundamental moves.

Talk about shooting, have U noticed sir Nards that Chris Tiu seem to have lost his shooting touch particularly from the 3 pt.? I mean, we all know he still can hit those long-range shots, but he seems to be getting more & more inconsistent lately. I remember during Tiu's early stint w/ Smart Gilas, he was really deadly from d outside & among the most explosive scorers of the team. Back then, scoring 15 pts. or more in an international game won't be much of a problem for Chris Tiu, but throughout this year, while playing for Smart Gilas, & lately while playing for Sinag-RP team in the SEA games, Tiu seemed to be struggling w/ his shots & could not hit even those wide open shots- shots that used to be automatic conversions during his early stints w/ Gilas.

I really wonder what happened to him.

nardy
11-23-2011, 05:16 AM
Talk about shooting, have U noticed sir Nards that Chris Tiu seem to have lost his shooting touch particularly from the 3 pt.? I mean, we all know he still can hit those long-range shots, but he seems to be getting more & more inconsistent lately. I remember during Tiu's early stint w/ Smart Gilas, he was really deadly from d outside & among the most explosive scorers of the team. Back then, scoring 15 pts. or more in an international game won't be much of a problem for Chris Tiu, but throughout this year, while playing for Smart Gilas, & lately while playing for Sinag-RP team in the SEA games, Tiu seemed to be struggling w/ his shots & could not hit even those wide open shots- shots that used to be automatic conversions during his early stints w/ Gilas.

I really wonder what happened to him.

actually as of late he was preoccupied with so many other things other than basketball unlike early on when he has more time to have extra hours of shooting practice. Remember there were times he'll even miss regular practices of Gilas as he has some "shooting" for a TV Commercial or for his TV Show.

Jvee somewhat lost his shooting touch in Wuhan because prior to that he was not able to give extra hours of shooting practice as he was concentrated that time with his rehab for his injury.

I have to agree with the majority here, its really more about practicing in order to perfect your shooting style.

thadzonline
11-23-2011, 05:56 AM
Another thing about shooting from long-range, nowadays it is mostly seen as a court of last resort, usually only important at crunchtime to tie a game, get back into a game or a game-winner, and often referred to as a lower percentage shot for majority of the game. In the days of Caidic, this was a primary weapon, crunchtime or not. The NBA's preference for showtime basketball has definitely destroyed this beautiful art:(

tito thoots
11-23-2011, 06:41 AM
Another thing about shooting from long-range, nowadays it is mostly seen as a court of last resort, usually only important at crunchtime to tie a game, get back into a game or a game-winner, and often referred to as a lower percentage shot for majority of the game. In the days of Caidic, this was a primary weapon, crunchtime or not. The NBA's preference for showtime basketball has definitely destroyed this beautiful art:(


Once upon a time the three point line was known as the "Great Equalizer." to help compensate vertically challenged basketballers. Somehow, the three point line and why it was so placed has gotten lost in the Filipino brand of play. maybe it does need further investigation on how to bring back the outside game at cadet level. I have always put a premium on guards that I train that their primary weapon should be their outside shot. I think coaches have as much to blame as the players for not putting enough emphasis on the outside game. I see a lot of the Ateneo high school boys putting up a lot of medium and long range jumpers in their patterns and will dump down the ball occasionally on their bigs. The art hasn't been totally lost but are emphasized on by select schools who know the importance of the shot. Maybe that's why they keep winning. Sorry for supporters of other teams but I have very limited access to Phil. High school games here. Maybe I'm wrong.

reamily
11-23-2011, 06:52 AM
conflict comes in this thing its not that we are influenced with showtime style of nba its just that we go to our instict and good decision making that we will go to the higher percentage shot:cool:..


theres a good difference with relying on outside shot and good outside shooting..

Shot selection is more suited for us Filipinos that outside shooting alone

Torjack
11-23-2011, 07:04 AM
As saying goes, "Practice Makes Perfect"

eiji_sawakita
11-23-2011, 07:41 AM
It's really quite disheartening as we have a lot of talented players here in the local scene. It's just that their's always so much wasted potential. Hope our players would have the drive to continue improving all aspects of their skills. The more they practice, the easier and better they will be come game time. If they are true professionals, then they should be taking this to heart.

I do hope that Kiefer and Ray (and the new generation of seemingly talented players) continue their ascension of a better basketball generation. My only fear is that success gets to their heads and they stop improving. Am glad that Ray has decided to work out in the States during vacation time. That should get him back to focusing on his shooting and PG play as he'll be coming up against bigger, older (quite possibly) and better players. Whatever happens, I just don't want Ray to forget his natural game: a James Harden like slasher and shooter. For Kiefer, he just has to continue working on his jump shooting. It seems like he's not confident when he's taking a jump shot, but he has so much prodigious talent that I'm sure he'll improve rapidly in this.

Thanks for the input Sir Nards ;)

talent is not everything. not anymore. even ultra talented players from the NBA like DWade, Kobe, DRose are known workaholics when it comes to perfecting their craft. they know that everyone in the NBA is equally talented or even better, so they need to develop something "extra" to stay ahead of the competition...be it - better endurance, consistent FT%, quicker 1st step, stronger upper body, consistent mid range jump shot, etc..

when I read this article (click here) (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-20/health/sc-health-0623-workout-20100620_1_workout-russell-westbrook-summer) before about DRose work ethic, I knew he will be one of the main contenders for the NBA MVP sooner or later.

one of the main reason why PBA is losing its popularity is because players looked out of shape. who wants to watch players with questionable fitness who can't even knock down open shots? :D

from what I see, after Pinoy college stars made their way to the PBA and secured multi-million contracts....after some time they will lose their edge and seems to be less impressive compared to when they first entered the league.
for some reason they will lose the drive to become better and will just be contented at their current "PBA-level". Where is the drive to transcend to "NBA-level" play have gone to? :(

I actually envy Japan now that their players are aiming to enter NBA (ditto Tabuse and Kawamura).

rensquared
11-23-2011, 07:43 AM
As saying goes, "Practice Makes Perfect"

"But nobody is perfect! So why practice?":D lol!

On a serious note, it should be "Right Practice makes right":D

acklium
11-23-2011, 07:53 AM
"But nobody is perfect! So why practice?":D lol!

On a serious note, it should be "Right Practice makes right":D

the right example is HANAMICHI SAKURAGI :D:D

carlz69
11-23-2011, 08:05 AM
talent is not everything. not anymore. even ultra talented players from the NBA like DWade, Kobe, DRose are known workaholics when it comes to perfecting their craft. they know that everyone in the NBA is equally talented or even better, so they need to develop something "extra" to stay ahead of the competition...be it - better endurance, consistent FT%, quicker 1st step, stronger upper body, consistent mid range jump shot, etc..

when I read this article (click here) (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-20/health/sc-health-0623-workout-20100620_1_workout-russell-westbrook-summer) before about DRose work ethic, I knew he will be one of the main contenders for the NBA MVP sooner or later.

one of the main reason why PBA is losing its popularity is because players looked out of shape. who wants to watch players with questionable fitness who can't even knock down open shots? :D

from what I see, after Pinoy college stars made their way to the PBA and secured multi-million contracts....after some time they will lose their edge and seems to be less impressive compared to when they first entered the league.
for some reason they will lose the drive to become better and will just be contented at their current "PBA-level". Where is the drive to transcend to "NBA-level" play have gone to? :(

I actually envy Japan now that their players are aiming to enter NBA (ditto Tabuse and Kawamura).


that was a hell of a workout. I wonder if pba players does this kinds of workouts? or are they too stubborn because they know they are already good and have guaranteed contracts.

Repetition is the key:)

analyzed
11-23-2011, 08:07 AM
Shooting... It boils down to mentality , culture and practice. I remember an article that compared US college players vs their counterparts Teens in europe. The main difference was repition. While US college players were not full time players and practiced shooting sparingly the european teens belonging to club team and their environment where exlcusively dedicated to practice, shooting in particular. 500 shots a day was not unusual. When you shoot that kind of volume a teenager, it changes the mentality, where if given the slightest of opening in a real game, you will take it wihout hesitation. As it is considered as an excellent high perecentage shot to take.

BTW on another note, on potential Gilas II members, I think given parks and Ravena's age , they really have upside. and it would really be good to invest in them and see how far they develop from now until 2013. If there ready by then , that would be great if not, so be it, and they should only get better in the years to come 2015 etc. Basically if Ravena is 50 % of his potential now , it is not unrelasistic for him to be around 80 % by 2013. The same cannot be said of any PBA player. like Chan or so, I'd take my chances with a 80 % parks over a 100 % chan.

On playing in NZ and Australia, an importatn time is next PBA off season. This is the time elite national teams will be assembled either preparing of the Olympics or Olympic qualifiers. It is also a critical time for Gilas as this the only chance we have to play with PBA reinforcements. If the SBP can organize a pocket invitational tournament in July among 3 teams participating in the Olympic qualifier tournament that would be great. Teams like New Zealand, Jordan and maybe Korea would be interested in a tournament like that as it would be good preperation. And i'm sure the filipino fans would as well, wow Korea and Jordan !

elcian
11-23-2011, 08:14 AM
talent is not everything. not anymore. even ultra talented players from the NBA like DWade, Kobe, DRose are known workaholics when it comes to perfecting their craft. they know that everyone in the NBA is equally talented or even better, so they need to develop something "extra" to stay ahead of the competition...be it - better endurance, consistent FT%, quicker 1st step, stronger upper body, consistent mid range jump shot, etc..

when I read this article (click here) (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-20/health/sc-health-0623-workout-20100620_1_workout-russell-westbrook-summer) before about DRose work ethic, I knew he will be one of the main contenders for the NBA MVP sooner or later.

one of the main reason why PBA is losing its popularity is because players looked out of shape. who wants to watch players with questionable fitness who can't even knock down open shots? :D

from what I see, after Pinoy college stars made their way to the PBA and secured multi-million contracts....after some time they will lose their edge and seems to be less impressive compared to when they first entered the league.
for some reason they will lose the drive to become better and will just be contented at their current "PBA-level". Where is the drive to transcend to "NBA-level" play have gone to? :(

I actually envy Japan now that their players are aiming to enter NBA (ditto Tabuse and Kawamura).

Right and that's exactly what is disappointing. We have talented players, but we don't have talented players who are driven to work hard and improve themselves to the world level. They're all content on just having a luxurious life where they earn lots of money and are treated like gods and superstars, even if they're really not.

We always go back to the argument that it's the NBA's fault for influencing the Pinoys current style of play: a focus on 1 on 1 basketball with an emphasis for showboating. Yet at the same time, I can't really fault the NBA for all of it. Granted I'd like less 1 on 1 and more team play whenever I watch the NBA, I feel like the team philosophy is always validated anyway as the teams who've won the past several NBA championships have all put an emphasis on TEAM play: The Spurs, Lakers and most recently, the Mavs all had beautiful team oriented offense that put the emphasis away from the 1 on 1 play. That's why, though I'm a Heat fan, I can say the Mavs deserved to win. Because they were the better TEAM.

Back to our point, Pinoy players really have to take it upon themselves to improve. Until now, after all these years, there still isn't a definitive, undisputed Number 1 player in the Philippines. Is it James Yap? Is it Arwind Santos? Is it J-Wash? That's the problem right there. We can't even determine the "alpha dog" of Philippine basketball. There's no player other players can look up to and say, "Wow I've got to step up my game so I can keep up with him." Just look at Gabe Norwood. The guy is a shadow of his 2007 post George Mason US NCAA Final Four run self. He's deteriorated in every way possible. Even Kelly Williams (I know he has a disease) has deteriorated as he's lost his guard/forward skills because of being forced to play as a Center here.

Reality: There are so many great and talented players here. It's just that they don't work hard enough to improve. They all become lackadaisical upon reaching the PBA. I just hope that changes because we know Philippine basketball is better than this.

elcian
11-23-2011, 08:26 AM
As we're on the topic of players working out to improve themselves, check out this video of LeBron James and Kevin Durant working out together, even if there is a lockout. It's really insane when I think about how much hard work they put in just to get to the level they are at right now. While we think NBA players are lazy and entitled, they're anything but.

Watch.

Part 1

2GNE9JLNJPg

Part 2

kximhrAKYVY

digitalsuperman
11-23-2011, 08:42 AM
Ok lets start the ball rolling here for Gilas v2.

this is from twitter of snow badua.



snowbadua snow badua
SBP EXEC. DIR. SONNY BARRIOS to discuss with SBP PRES MANNY V PANGILINAN & SMART BIG BOSS RICKY VARGAS the formation of GILAS 2.0 next month

rensquared
11-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Ok lets start the ball rolling here for Gilas v2.

this is from twitter of snow badua.



snowbadua snow badua
SBP EXEC. DIR. SONNY BARRIOS to discuss with SBP PRES MANNY V PANGILINAN & SMART BIG BOSS RICKY VARGAS the formation of GILAS 2.0 next month

regarding this meeting, I'm wondering how they are going to synchronize the PBA, UAAP, and NCAA games with the FIBA Calendar.

durden_tyler
11-23-2011, 10:17 AM
regarding this meeting, I'm wondering how they are going to synchronize the PBA, UAAP, and NCAA games with the FIBA Calendar.

That's still all-SBP, what i wonder about is if the SBP will have different meetings with other entities you mentioned?

nardy
11-23-2011, 10:37 AM
That's still all-SBP, what i wonder about is if the SBP will have different meetings with other entities you mentioned?

communications have been sent .....

durden_tyler
11-23-2011, 12:03 PM
communications have been sent .....

That is indeed the first step. :D

i would rather have them talking behind the scene (and us fans not knowing) over a media-frenzy papapel presscons that historically have brought us empty promises ;)

Silent Killer
11-23-2011, 02:21 PM
That is indeed the first step. :D

i would rather have them talking behind the scene (and us fans not knowing) over a media-frenzy papapel presscons that historically have brought us empty promises ;)

close door meeting and tune in or follow some key personalities in Twitter for the latest about this ;)

Alex07
11-23-2011, 02:26 PM
That is indeed the first step. :D

i would rather have them talking behind the scene (and us fans not knowing) over a media-frenzy papapel presscons that historically have brought us empty promises ;)

no let them talk with media guys around..so we can cut and paste their empty promises here in the forums come 2013 :D

Joe Yabuki
11-23-2011, 02:31 PM
no let them talk with media guys around..so we can cut and paste their empty promises here in the forums come 2013 :D

No worries, even if theyre not, rats (http://sports.inquirer.net/tag/beth-celis) usually find a way to get to their cheese.

pachador
11-23-2011, 05:57 PM
When you live in the philippines, generally speaking, you live in a culture of "Slacking-off" ("puede na yan" , "pasensya na" , "ok na yan", "bukas na lang yan") There is a premium on "form" instead of function.(porma is important). There is also an onion-skinned sensitivity to criticism that makes people slack off since criticism is muted so people are not aware or do not care abouttheir failings or weaknesses since their peers just overlook it.. It is not a "hothouse" ultra-competive environment. Even foreigners who have lived many years in the philippines start to adopt this attitude :) This prevailing environment is specially noticeable in the rural areas or provinces......

what makes matters worse is that the PBA for example, encourages this, slackers mentality with their "height limit" rule and inviting only "weak" foreign teams or handicapping invited foreign teams with biased referees:D..... fostering the illusion that PBA players are better or at par with high-level foreign competition when the reality is that the PBA has been inviting weak foreign teams( university of british columbia, NoviSad-that very young yugoslavian team, old retired NBA players, etc) :rolleyes: The PBA , by fostering this illusion, only gives uninformed filipino fans high hopes when our national team plays overseas, only for the fans to find their hopes dashed when they get a strong dose of reality when they see their idol players finally meet the "real" beasts of the east.

On a slightly different but related, To be fair to SBP, there are important structural and stakeholder responsibilities that need to be resolved, that will go a long way in making our national team more competitive, including:
1.) Aligning the Pro and school leagues schedule with the FIBA schedule to enable the release of the country's top pros and amateurs to the national team.
2.) Getting the school and pro team owners to lend their players since they do not have the excuse anymore of their respective leagues' games being in conflict with FIBA games.

Lastly, to be fair to the so-called slacker local players, that I have , perhaps unfairly castigated, they are also the products of their mentors who are no other than the local coaches themselves. poor local coach = poor local players...........underdeveloped local coaches = underdeveloped local players......poor mentors or poor motivators = poorly motivated players.......slacker coaches = slacker players, and so on, generally speaking. of course, there will be always be players who can rise above their poor environment and poor coaching and improve themselves by sheer effort....Kudos to them..


Right and that's exactly what is disappointing. We have talented players, but we don't have talented players who are driven to work hard and improve themselves to the world level. They're all content on just having a luxurious life where they earn lots of money and are treated like gods and superstars, even if they're really not.

We always go back to the argument that it's the NBA's fault for influencing the Pinoys current style of play: a focus on 1 on 1 basketball with an emphasis for showboating. Yet at the same time, I can't really fault the NBA for all of it. Granted I'd like less 1 on 1 and more team play whenever I watch the NBA, I feel like the team philosophy is always validated anyway as the teams who've won the past several NBA championships have all put an emphasis on TEAM play: The Spurs, Lakers and most recently, the Mavs all had beautiful team oriented offense that put the emphasis away from the 1 on 1 play. That's why, though I'm a Heat fan, I can say the Mavs deserved to win. Because they were the better TEAM.

Back to our point, Pinoy players really have to take it upon themselves to improve. Until now, after all these years, there still isn't a definitive, undisputed Number 1 player in the Philippines. Is it James Yap? Is it Arwind Santos? Is it J-Wash? That's the problem right there. We can't even determine the "alpha dog" of Philippine basketball. There's no player other players can look up to and say, "Wow I've got to step up my game so I can keep up with him." Just look at Gabe Norwood. The guy is a shadow of his 2007 post George Mason US NCAA Final Four run self. He's deteriorated in every way possible. Even Kelly Williams (I know he has a disease) has deteriorated as he's lost his guard/forward skills because of being forced to play as a Center here.

Reality: There are so many great and talented players here. It's just that they don't work hard enough to improve. They all become lackadaisical upon reaching the PBA. I just hope that changes because we know Philippine basketball is better than this.

nardy
11-23-2011, 10:20 PM
In Huddle (http://sports.inquirer.net/column/in-huddle)

By Beth Celis (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/beth-celis)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer)
12:26 am | Thursday, November 24th, 2011

My first impression of Air21’s “Higanteng Magilas” was a camp geared toward basketball’s big men.

But camp director Allan Gregorio was quick to correct me.

“On the contrary, this is a point guard academy. The idea is for the students of basketball to be fundamentally trained as point guards,” he explained.

“Initially, the clinic will be for young aspirants aged 8-12 years old. Later we will go around the country to search for tall players who will be trained for the No. l position.”

The Higanteng Magilas Camp, cosponsored by Smart and the MVP Sports Foundation, will be launched in Taguig on Dec. 8. The Region 3 leg will be organized by N-LEX.

pachador
11-23-2011, 11:27 PM
excellent idea !!! verygood !



In Huddle (http://sports.inquirer.net/column/in-huddle)

By Beth Celis (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/beth-celis)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer)
12:26 am | Thursday, November 24th, 2011

My first impression of Air21’s “Higanteng Magilas” was a camp geared toward basketball’s big men.

But camp director Allan Gregorio was quick to correct me.

“On the contrary, this is a point guard academy. The idea is for the students of basketball to be fundamentally trained as point guards,” he explained.

“Initially, the clinic will be for young aspirants aged 8-12 years old. Later we will go around the country to search for tall players who will be trained for the No. l position.”

The Higanteng Magilas Camp, cosponsored by Smart and the MVP Sports Foundation, will be launched in Taguig on Dec. 8. The Region 3 leg will be organized by N-LEX.

digitalsuperman
11-24-2011, 02:11 AM
In Huddle (http://sports.inquirer.net/column/in-huddle)

By Beth Celis (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/beth-celis)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer)
12:26 am | Thursday, November 24th, 2011

My first impression of Air21’s “Higanteng Magilas” was a camp geared toward basketball’s big men.

But camp director Allan Gregorio was quick to correct me.

“On the contrary, this is a point guard academy. The idea is for the students of basketball to be fundamentally trained as point guards,” he explained.

“Initially, the clinic will be for young aspirants aged 8-12 years old. Later we will go around the country to search for tall players who will be trained for the No. l position.”

The Higanteng Magilas Camp, cosponsored by Smart and the MVP Sports Foundation, will be launched in Taguig on Dec. 8. The Region 3 leg will be organized by N-LEX.

sir nardy. would be a good idea if lets say in a SBP led grassroots tournaments there would be a standard height for point guards? lets say for example for U16 point guards should be at least 5'11, 18 and above point guards should be at least 6'0. something like that? this is to promote taller pg's. do you think it would be possible?

FilipinoDad
11-24-2011, 02:38 AM
In Huddle (http://sports.inquirer.net/column/in-huddle)

By Beth Celis (http://sports.inquirer.net/byline/beth-celis)
Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://sports.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer)
12:26 am | Thursday, November 24th, 2011

My first impression of Air21’s “Higanteng Magilas” was a camp geared toward basketball’s big men.

But camp director Allan Gregorio was quick to correct me.

“On the contrary, this is a point guard academy. The idea is for the students of basketball to be fundamentally trained as point guards,” he explained.

“Initially, the clinic will be for young aspirants aged 8-12 years old. Later we will go around the country to search for tall players who will be trained for the No. l position.”

The Higanteng Magilas Camp, cosponsored by Smart and the MVP Sports Foundation, will be launched in Taguig on Dec. 8. The Region 3 leg will be organized by N-LEX.

When they do find players to train, can there be some sort of agreement that they'll play for the NT when needed?

durden_tyler
11-24-2011, 02:44 AM
When they do find players to train, can there be some sort of agreement that they'll play for the NT when needed?

Question: How much? :D

PinoyPride
11-24-2011, 02:50 AM
sir nardy. would be a good idea if lets say in a SBP led grassroots tournaments there would be a standard height for point guards? lets say for example for U16 point guards should be at least 5'11, 18 and above point guards should be at least 6'0. something like that? this is to promote taller pg's. do you think it would be possible?

you can't "promote" taller point guards. first of all, point guard is a position that requires heavy court awareness, communication, leadership, etc., all traits that are internal, as opposed to external skills such as dribbling or passing.
Second, you can't pigeonhole someone into a position. In the NBA there are plenty of undersized power forwards due to their body type, and if they were told they should play another position due to their height, perhaps they would not be where they are.
Third, Players that are considered "short" should generally acquire skills such as dribbling and shooting that are particular to a guard position anyway for their development.

trig
11-24-2011, 05:23 AM
I think the goal is to not only find tall PG's but also to train all players regardless of position, guard skills. I don't care if you're a pg or a center. You need to have the basic fundamentals like dribbling, passing, shooting etc.

Its not forcing players to be pg, its giving them the skillset needed for international bball. Think Greggy Boy and Junmar with skills of el presidente.

tito thoots
11-24-2011, 05:35 AM
you can't "promote" taller point guards. first of all, point guard is a position that requires heavy court awareness, communication, leadership, etc., all traits that are internal, as opposed to external skills such as dribbling or passing.
Second, you can't pigeonhole someone into a position. In the NBA there are plenty of undersized power forwards due to their body type, and if they were told they should play another position due to their height, perhaps they would not be where they are.
Third, Players that are considered "short" should generally acquire skills such as dribbling and shooting that are particular to a guard position anyway for their development.


I am in the process of training incoming year 9's (first year high school students) for the basketball program next year. Regardless of height and dexterity, we train everyone to start off at guard specific training drills. we do not concern ourselves at this age who plays what position. Incoming 5'5 guys are trained with the same drills as incoming 6'5 guys. The idea behind it is that if all of the guys have guard specific skills, it is easier to hone them to specific positions that do not require as much skill and dexterity. Position based training comes later on.

digitalsuperman
11-24-2011, 06:10 AM
I am in the process of training incoming year 9's (first year high school students) for the basketball program next year. Regardless of height and dexterity, we train everyone to start off at guard specific training drills. we do not concern ourselves at this age who plays what position. Incoming 5'5 guys are trained with the same drills as incoming 6'5 guys. The idea behind it is that if all of the guys have guard specific skills, it is easier to hone them to specific positions that do not require as much skill and dexterity. Position based training comes later on.

indeed very true.

acklium
11-24-2011, 07:04 AM
I am in the process of training incoming year 9's (first year high school students) for the basketball program next year. Regardless of height and dexterity, we train everyone to start off at guard specific training drills. we do not concern ourselves at this age who plays what position. Incoming 5'5 guys are trained with the same drills as incoming 6'5 guys. The idea behind it is that if all of the guys have guard specific skills, it is easier to hone them to specific positions that do not require as much skill and dexterity. Position based training comes later on.

+1 to this tito thoots ;)

switnoypi
11-24-2011, 09:47 AM
Somebody very reliable told me that the new direction of GILAS PILIPINAS 2.0 is to have more PBA players in the fold.

From snow badua FB

Silent Killer
11-24-2011, 10:04 AM
Somebody very reliable told me that the new direction of GILAS PILIPINAS 2.0 is to have more PBA players in the fold.

From snow badua FB

most likely the gilas Key players.

acklium
11-24-2011, 10:29 AM
most likely the gilas Key players.

+ fil-fors and sinag

Allanhboy
11-24-2011, 12:21 PM
Somebody very reliable told me that the new direction of GILAS PILIPINAS 2.0 is to have more PBA players in the fold.

From snow badua FB

I don't see this happening at all if the PBA insists that their players will only be available for 3 months between August-October every year.

The best scenario is to strengthen the Gilas 2.0 core from the amateur ranks that would include new Fil-for finds and the best Sinag players.

tito thoots
11-24-2011, 07:07 PM
I think the goal is to not only find tall PG's but also to train all players regardless of position, guard skills. I don't care if you're a pg or a center. You need to have the basic fundamentals like dribbling, passing, shooting etc.

Its not forcing players to be pg, its giving them the skillset needed for international bball. Think Greggy Boy and Junmar with skills of el presidente.

That is why Don Ramon is who he is. A big man (by Pinoy standards) with point guard skills and point guard IQ. He is truly IMO the best ever Pinoy player (pound for pound) :D:D:D:D

blackninja
11-24-2011, 08:37 PM
I am in the process of training incoming year 9's (first year high school students) for the basketball program next year. Regardless of height and dexterity, we train everyone to start off at guard specific training drills. we do not concern ourselves at this age who plays what position. Incoming 5'5 guys are trained with the same drills as incoming 6'5 guys. The idea behind it is that if all of the guys have guard specific skills, it is easier to hone them to specific positions that do not require as much skill and dexterity. Position based training comes later on.

this is very nice!:D

tito thoots
11-24-2011, 11:11 PM
Somebody very reliable told me that the new direction of GILAS PILIPINAS 2.0 is to have more PBA players in the fold.

From snow badua FB

Had a meeting with some FIBA insiders and they shared with me the changes that are planned to occur by 2015 onwards for FIBA competitions. It is aimed to mend the ff. primary problems:

a. disparity of the team strengths in different regions- eg. Europe will have more that 10 strong teams as opposed to Oceania having only Australia and New Zealand.

b. more international games within the FIBA regions.

and some other points highlighted but maybe not as important because I switched off.:D Old bureaucrats in suits.:):):)

Anyway, here is how it sounds and you work it out if it will be to our advantage or not long term. We will have to change our notion that we can continue with the pros playing and practicing long term for the team though.

a. Team maybe re-allocated to other FIBA regions. Maybe teams from the European region join up with the Oceania region to even up the strengths.
b. The biggest change though is that:

There will only be one world pool where the teams will have to battle each other out in their respective regions to get promoted to the world pool. this may mean not just one off competitions but maybe home and away games playing most of the year with points allocated . Just like a regional tournament. The teams with the most points in their respected regions will get reallocated to the world pool which means more travel as they are now pitted with that top pool to stay there. Olympics and world qualifiers will only be chosen in the top pool (world pool).

the problem now is that, the world pool may not have any Asian countries and full of Americas and European countries.

They already forsee the Arabian countries having a big winge when this happens as they will have a harder time getting to the Olympics and the World Champs than the usual easy format in the undersized FIBA Asia regional champs.
This is just a preview but have a think about this for now.
If you have any questions, sir Nards et al, I have a meeting with them again about basketball matters in a weeks time. I maybe able to squeeze off a few questions during tea time. I may not be able to ask them all though.

This is one for discussion. If there is anyone who has the time or inclination to put up a thread for this, please do so because I am too busy.

Cheers,
Tito Thoots

pachador
11-24-2011, 11:56 PM
so it looks like FIBA is moving towards an amateur world version of NBA ??? sounds like a movement towards getting more advertisements/revenues.



Had a meeting with some FIBA insiders and they shared with me the changes that are planned to occur by 2015 onwards for FIBA competitions. It is aimed to mend the ff. primary problems:

a. disparity of the team strengths in different regions- eg. Europe will have more that 10 strong teams as opposed to Oceania having only Australia and New Zealand.

b. more international games within the FIBA regions.

and some other points highlighted but maybe not as important because I switched off.:D Old bureaucrats in suits.:):):)

Anyway, here is how it sounds and you work it out if it will be to our advantage or not long term. We will have to change our notion that we can continue with the pros playing and practicing long term for the team though.

a. Team maybe re-allocated to other FIBA regions. Maybe teams from the European region join up with the Oceania region to even up the strengths.
b. The biggest change though is that:

There will only be one world pool where the teams will have to battle each other out in their respective regions to get promoted to the world pool. this may mean not just one off competitions but maybe home and away games playing most of the year with points allocated . Just like a regional tournament. The teams with the most points in their respected regions will get reallocated to the world pool which means more travel as they are now pitted with that top pool to stay there. Olympics and world qualifiers will only be chosen in the top pool (world pool).

the problem now is that, the world pool may not have any Asian countries and full of Americas and European countries.

They already forsee the Arabian countries having a big winge when this happens as they will have a harder time getting to the Olympics and the World Champs than the usual easy format in the undersized FIBA Asia regional champs.
This is just a preview but have a think about this for now.
If you have any questions, sir Nards et al, I have a meeting with them again about basketball matters in a weeks time. I maybe able to squeeze off a few questions during tea time. I may not be able to ask them all though.

This is one for discussion. If there is anyone who has the time or inclination to put up a thread for this, please do so because I am too busy.

Cheers,
Tito Thoots

toikins
11-25-2011, 01:08 AM
Had a meeting with some FIBA insiders and they shared with me the changes that are planned to occur by 2015 onwards for FIBA competitions. It is aimed to mend the ff. primary problems:

a. disparity of the team strengths in different regions- eg. Europe will have more that 10 strong teams as opposed to Oceania having only Australia and New Zealand.

b. more international games within the FIBA regions.

and some other points highlighted but maybe not as important because I switched off.:D Old bureaucrats in suits.:):):)

Anyway, here is how it sounds and you work it out if it will be to our advantage or not long term. We will have to change our notion that we can continue with the pros playing and practicing long term for the team though.

a. Team maybe re-allocated to other FIBA regions. Maybe teams from the European region join up with the Oceania region to even up the strengths.
b. The biggest change though is that:

There will only be one world pool where the teams will have to battle each other out in their respective regions to get promoted to the world pool. this may mean not just one off competitions but maybe home and away games playing most of the year with points allocated . Just like a regional tournament. The teams with the most points in their respected regions will get reallocated to the world pool which means more travel as they are now pitted with that top pool to stay there. Olympics and world qualifiers will only be chosen in the top pool (world pool).

the problem now is that, the world pool may not have any Asian countries and full of Americas and European countries.

They already forsee the Arabian countries having a big winge when this happens as they will have a harder time getting to the Olympics and the World Champs than the usual easy format in the undersized FIBA Asia regional champs.
This is just a preview but have a think about this for now.
If you have any questions, sir Nards et al, I have a meeting with them again about basketball matters in a weeks time. I maybe able to squeeze off a few questions during tea time. I may not be able to ask them all though.

This is one for discussion. If there is anyone who has the time or inclination to put up a thread for this, please do so because I am too busy.

Cheers,
Tito Thoots

i dont understand it fully,sorry just woke up.

what does it mean to have a world pool? sort of like division 1(elite) and division 2(scrubs/developmental)?
this looks more costly and time consuming with travel thingy.

looks like Philippines wont make it to that world pool for the elites.

or did i get this wrong?care to enlighten me. thank you

capitantiago
11-25-2011, 01:43 AM
Had a meeting with some FIBA insiders and they shared with me the changes that are planned to occur by 2015 onwards for FIBA competitions. It is aimed to mend the ff. primary problems:

a. disparity of the team strengths in different regions- eg. Europe will have more that 10 strong teams as opposed to Oceania having only Australia and New Zealand.

b. more international games within the FIBA regions.

and some other points highlighted but maybe not as important because I switched off.:D Old bureaucrats in suits.:):):)

Anyway, here is how it sounds and you work it out if it will be to our advantage or not long term. We will have to change our notion that we can continue with the pros playing and practicing long term for the team though.

a. Team maybe re-allocated to other FIBA regions. Maybe teams from the European region join up with the Oceania region to even up the strengths.
b. The biggest change though is that:

There will only be one world pool where the teams will have to battle each other out in their respective regions to get promoted to the world pool. this may mean not just one off competitions but maybe home and away games playing most of the year with points allocated . Just like a regional tournament. The teams with the most points in their respected regions will get reallocated to the world pool which means more travel as they are now pitted with that top pool to stay there. Olympics and world qualifiers will only be chosen in the top pool (world pool).

the problem now is that, the world pool may not have any Asian countries and full of Americas and European countries.

They already forsee the Arabian countries having a big winge when this happens as they will have a harder time getting to the Olympics and the World Champs than the usual easy format in the undersized FIBA Asia regional champs.
This is just a preview but have a think about this for now.
If you have any questions, sir Nards et al, I have a meeting with them again about basketball matters in a weeks time. I maybe able to squeeze off a few questions during tea time. I may not be able to ask them all though.

This is one for discussion. If there is anyone who has the time or inclination to put up a thread for this, please do so because I am too busy.

Cheers,
Tito Thoots

so it is something like EPL.
it can be good or bad, depending on the perspective of the participants and affected zones.

tito thoots
11-25-2011, 01:47 AM
i dont understand it fully,sorry just woke up.

what does it mean to have a world pool? sort of like division 1(elite) and division 2(scrubs/developmental)?
this looks more costly and time consuming with travel thingy.

looks like Philippines wont make it to that world pool for the elites.

or did i get this wrong?care to enlighten me. thank you

The world pool is the top pool. Everybody will try to be the top dog in their Regions to make it to the world pool. but once in the world pool, these teams will have games amongst each other and try to stay in that pool while those left behind in the regions will battle against each other yet again to get promoted in the next round. Let's say china gets in due to its dominance in Asia, they do not rest their laurels there as they will try to stay in the pool while tjhose left behind say the Philippines can now try to top the FIBA asia regions sans China to get promoted in the next round of qualifiers. the bottom teams will get booted out of the world pool and get relegated back to their own regions to try to qualify again.
The point I am seeing here is,
More games vs each other=more cost
time consuming= whose available year round?
more advertising=more money involved for FIBA

Having part time pro players won't do anymore with this system. It's time to go back to the old NCC system.

geo
11-25-2011, 01:54 AM
looks like mission impossible for the Philippines just get harder:(:(:(:(

Johnny A
11-25-2011, 02:17 AM
^^ Sounds like the Davis Cup in Tennis

In 1981, the tiered system of competition was created, which remains in use today, and in which the 16 best national teams compete in the World Group and in which all other national teams compete in one of the four groups in one of the three regional zones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_Cup

Davis Cup has 3 zones, Philippines belong to the Asia/Oceania zone where there are Group tiers, from Group 1 to Group 3..

Lets say FIBA divides the world into 4 zones, and out of 4 zones are the 4 top teams to make a total of 16 team in the world group. And in the initial staging, Australia, NZ, China and Iran emerges as the Top 4 of Asia/Oceania zone. Other Asia/Oceania countries will be grouped according to rankings. Philippines will probably be in the Group 1 tournament where the top two finishers will go into playoff with the bottom two teams of Asia/Oceania World Group and the two winners will be promoted to the World stage...

yeah this will be exciting as Philippines can test the mettle of Aus/NZ and more games.:)

weward
11-25-2011, 03:12 AM
i think Gilas 1 fits in that format. right? no/minimum number of part-timers(college/pros). most were out of college and were just committed to play for the national team.

if this thing will be longer than usual FIBA tournament, then USA might not always send a dream team.

if performance will be the basis of a team staying on the world pool, then there might just be a switch every now and then between a world pool member powerhouse of a region but is a scrub in the world pool and a regional champion team.(without the world pool qualified team of the region) .
then come next tournament, the former world pool member will top the region then the former topper who is already a part of the world pool will switch places again.

i think the current FIBA format is better. where there are 3 representatives from asia,a reasonable number of representatives from europe and americas,africa and oceana.

applying that new format will not be any better than the olympic basketball wherein there would be top representative/s from all regions then a wild card rouund to tell which originally non-qualified teams from every region deserves to take part in the olympics.

boy..fiba is really after promotion of the sport. :D
home and away..it will not happen. its too costly everyone will be required to host and spend.

JAMSKIE
11-25-2011, 03:24 AM
most likely the gilas Key players.

If Rajko Toroman is retained as coach then it would be logical that former Gilas cagers who are now in the PBA will compose Gilas-2. But since rumors are strong that Toroman is likely to be replaced & Chot Reyes looms as his most likely replacement, I believe that the core of GIlas-2 must come from the Talk n Text team(kelly williams, R. Deocampo, Delinger, Aguilar, Alapag, Ryan Reyes, Jason Castro). I believe that in forming a National team, cohesion must be the top priority & there could be no better way for a coach to achieve cohesion & chemistry than to recruit the players that play under his team in the PBA. Becoz of the hectic PBA calendar, Gilas-2 will have to address the challenge of attaining enough cohesion & preparing well enough for the next FIBA-Asia without causing much burden to the PBA. Gilas-2 faces this critical question of how to fit it's training & preparation with the hectic 10-month long duration of the PBA season.

The idea that Gilas-2 would be a mix of PBA cagers & players from the triumphant Sinag-Pilipinas team would encounter some problems. Of the 12 members of Sinag-pilipinas, I think only half of w/c are good enough to make the Gilas-2 training pool. Perhaps Greg Slaughter, Garvo Lanete, Kiefer Ravena, Ray Parks, Jr., Cliff Hodge & Chris Ellis are shoo-inns. But as in the case of Parks & Ravena, who would still be eligible to play in the UAAP by 2013, will their respective schools allow them to play for the Nat'l. team since the FIBA-Asia tournament is scheduled during the UAAP season? Will Ateneo & NU be willing to miss their top players for the sake of national interest?

yogaflame
11-25-2011, 06:01 AM
If Rajko Toroman is retained as coach then it would be logical that former Gilas cagers who are now in the PBA will compose Gilas-2. But since rumors are strong that Toroman is likely to be replaced & Chot Reyes looms as his most likely replacement, I believe that the core of GIlas-2 must come from the Talk n Text team(kelly williams, R. Deocampo, Delinger, Aguilar, Alapag, Ryan Reyes, Jason Castro). I believe that in forming a National team, cohesion must be the top priority & there could be no better way for a coach to achieve cohesion & chemistry than to recruit the players that play under his team in the PBA. Becoz of the hectic PBA calendar, Gilas-2 will have to address the challenge of attaining enough cohesion & preparing well enough for the next FIBA-Asia without causing much burden to the PBA. Gilas-2 faces this critical question of how to fit it's training & preparation with the hectic 10-month long duration of the PBA season.

The idea that Gilas-2 would be a mix of PBA cagers & players from the triumphant Sinag-Pilipinas team would encounter some problems. Of the 12 members of Sinag-pilipinas, I think only half of w/c are good enough to make the Gilas-2 training pool. Perhaps Greg Slaughter, Garvo Lanete, Kiefer Ravena, Ray Parks, Jr., Cliff Hodge & Chris Ellis are shoo-inns. But as in the case of Parks & Ravena, who would still be eligible to play in the UAAP by 2013, will their respective schools allow them to play for the Nat'l. team since the FIBA-Asia tournament is scheduled during the UAAP season? Will Ateneo & NU be willing to miss their top players for the sake of national interest?

The answer to your last question is pretty obvious, No. This schools are so greedy to win for themselves. Remember how Ateneo rumored to had lobbied to get Slaugther out of Gilas to join them in Uaap seaon this year? It is so obvious ateneo has a say on why he was not even included , not even as a reserve in gilas and they choose the smaller Ballesteros. I just dont get it that they care more on local leagues than our countries pride which can also help there schools. They will even earn more on sponsoring the national team. They rather win against few local teams than for our countries prides.

toikins
11-25-2011, 09:40 AM
home and away..it will not happen. its too costly everyone will be required to host and spend.

imagine a home and away setting where NT-X visits NT-Y then tries to populate with the women of the country-Y. Country-Y will benefit.
just kidding! hehe

Joe Yabuki
11-25-2011, 11:36 AM
The world pool is the top pool. Everybody will try to be the top dog in their Regions to make it to the world pool. but once in the world pool, these teams will have games amongst each other and try to stay in that pool while those left behind in the regions will battle against each other yet again to get promoted in the next round. Let's say china gets in due to its dominance in Asia, they do not rest their laurels there as they will try to stay in the pool while tjhose left behind say the Philippines can now try to top the FIBA asia regions sans China to get promoted in the next round of qualifiers. the bottom teams will get booted out of the world pool and get relegated back to their own regions to try to qualify again.
The point I am seeing here is,
More games vs each other=more cost
time consuming= whose available year round?
more advertising=more money involved for FIBA

Having part time pro players won't do anymore with this system. It's time to go back to the old NCC system.

Seems like a desperate attempt by FIBA to gain relevancy against the NBA.
Personally this will do them more harm than good, aside from the extra costs I just dont think that the NBA superstars like the Gasol brothers, Nowtizki etc.. would even be bothered to join the tournament. The thing with Football is that the huge commercial leagues like La Liga, EPL and Bundesliga are all under the Fifa group. Do you think the FIBA has the similar authority regarding the NBA? or even the other popular Basketball leagues?

and on another note.. if this does push through.... Spain is probably pissed right now since their plan with Ibaka might have been short lived.

RedMetal
11-26-2011, 02:17 AM
Gullas praises Slaughter’s move
November 26, 2011

UNIVERSITY of the Visayas president Eduardo Gullas is elated by his former ward Greg Slaughter’s announcement that he is offering his services for Gilas 2, a team that is fighting for a slot for the Fiba World Championships in 2014.

Slaughter, who anchored Sinag Pilipinas to the gold medal in the Southeast Asian Games in Indonesia, said he wants to join the Smart Gilas 2 program.

“I’m very proud of the decision of Greg Slaughter,” Gullas said in a text message to Sun.Star Cebu.

Slaughter helped UV secure three straight Cesafi titles from 2007 to 2009 before Gullas allowed him to play for Smart Gilas.

“Slaughter played for helped secure the seventh, eighth and ninth Cesafi titles for the Lancers and then I gave him up for the flag and country to Gilas 1 in year 2008.

Although I could have retained him and probably secure a perfect 10 for the Green Lancers last year,” Gullas said.

It was SBP president and telecommunication mogul Manny V. Pangilinan who requested Gullas to allow Slaughter to play with the National team.

However, Slaughter got cut from the Gilas program in 2010 and went back to school and
this time, he enrolled at Ateneo de Manila University (Admu) and helped the Blue Eagles win their fourth straight UAAP title.

With one more playing year left, Slaughter could opt out from school and dedicate himself in training for the Fiba-Asia tournament that could earn the Philippines a slot to the World Championship in 2014.

Published in the Sun.Star Cebu newspaper on November 25, 2011.:cool:

analyzed
11-26-2011, 05:31 AM
Actually a home and away set-up will be an advantage for country that has a full time program like Gilas vs the set-up of other countries that rely on players belonging from different leagues. (who only have their players for limited periods). If you noticed most of our asian rivals don't have full time national team programs.

On another note, I have a quick question on the rules around Chris Lutz situation. who only signed a 1 year rookie contract with Petron. Technically when his contract expires , can he play outside of the PBA.? europe etc. or more specifically sign a contract with Gilas for a year ? ( I know this could strain the relationship between the PBA and SBP) but from Lutz perspective it makes total sense. Remember if he where to play through his PBA rookie contract (1st 3 years) he is limited to the maximum salary for rookie, sophomore, Junior contracts. Which is significantly less than what Gilas was offereing. Furthermore if he were to rejoin the PBA after his 2nd Gilas stint and contract. Technically he will no longer be a rookie. and therefor can negotiate for veteran maximum salary contracts.
From Gilas perspective, the advantage is they will Lutz avaialbilty full time to prepare for FIBA asia rather than the contraits the PBA board will impose on players avaialablity to practice with Gilas.
I think this is a sensitve issue that we will face next year

yogaflame
11-26-2011, 12:05 PM
Gullas praises Slaughter’s move
November 26, 2011

UNIVERSITY of the Visayas president Eduardo Gullas is elated by his former ward Greg Slaughter’s announcement that he is offering his services for Gilas 2, a team that is fighting for a slot for the Fiba World Championships in 2014.

Slaughter, who anchored Sinag Pilipinas to the gold medal in the Southeast Asian Games in Indonesia, said he wants to join the Smart Gilas 2 program.

“I’m very proud of the decision of Greg Slaughter,” Gullas said in a text message to Sun.Star Cebu.

Slaughter helped UV secure three straight Cesafi titles from 2007 to 2009 before Gullas allowed him to play for Smart Gilas.

“Slaughter played for helped secure the seventh, eighth and ninth Cesafi titles for the Lancers and then I gave him up for the flag and country to Gilas 1 in year 2008.

Although I could have retained him and probably secure a perfect 10 for the Green Lancers last year,” Gullas said.

It was SBP president and telecommunication mogul Manny V. Pangilinan who requested Gullas to allow Slaughter to play with the National team.

However, Slaughter got cut from the Gilas program in 2010 and went back to school and
this time, he enrolled at Ateneo de Manila University (Admu) and helped the Blue Eagles win their fourth straight UAAP title.

With one more playing year left, Slaughter could opt out from school and dedicate himself in training for the Fiba-Asia tournament that could earn the Philippines a slot to the World Championship in 2014.

Published in the Sun.Star Cebu newspaper on November 25, 2011.:cool:

The players are willing to play but again the problem for greg, Parks and ravena are there greedy schools who will find ways for them not to be part of National team, this back ward and selfish minded schools and leagues cares more for local titles and money than our national team. I'm sadden by the greed of this schools especially they are Catholic schools and yet they don't show Catholic values. Sigh... :mad:

JAMSKIE
11-27-2011, 01:57 AM
The players are willing to play but again the problem for greg, Parks and ravena are there greedy schools who will find ways for them not to be part of National team, this back ward and selfish minded schools and leagues cares more for local titles and money than our national team. I'm sadden by the greed of this schools especially they are Catholic schools and yet they don't show Catholic values. Sigh... :mad:

call it HYPOCRISY my friend! I wonder how can these schools preach to their students moral values such as patriotism & self-sacrifice? How can someone tell others not to smoke when he has a cigarette on his mouth?

These schools call themselves educational institutions yet they serve as bad examples to the youth. NAKAKAHIYA KAYO!

JAMSKIE
11-27-2011, 02:36 AM
Actually a home and away set-up will be an advantage for country that has a full time program like Gilas vs the set-up of other countries that rely on players belonging from different leagues. (who only have their players for limited periods). If you noticed most of our asian rivals don't have full time national team programs.

On another note, I have a quick question on the rules around Chris Lutz situation. who only signed a 1 year rookie contract with Petron. Technically when his contract expires , can he play outside of the PBA.? europe etc. or more specifically sign a contract with Gilas for a year ? ( I know this could strain the relationship between the PBA and SBP) but from Lutz perspective it makes total sense. Remember if he where to play through his PBA rookie contract (1st 3 years) he is limited to the maximum salary for rookie, sophomore, Junior contracts. Which is significantly less than what Gilas was offereing. Furthermore if he were to rejoin the PBA after his 2nd Gilas stint and contract. Technically he will no longer be a rookie. and therefor can negotiate for veteran maximum salary contracts.
From Gilas perspective, the advantage is they will Lutz avaialbilty full time to prepare for FIBA asia rather than the contraits the PBA board will impose on players avaialablity to practice with Gilas.
I think this is a sensitve issue that we will face next year

Well, talking about a "full time" national team program like Smart Gilas-1, would the Smart Gilas part 2, w/c will include current amateur players, have the same international game exposure as the Gilas part 1 had?

As what the initial consensus of the SBP & the PBA indicates, Gilas 2 would be a mixture of PBA & amateur cagers (majority of those would be members of Sinag-pilipinas). While the PBA cagers will have part-time training w/ the nat'l pool while the PBA season is ongoing, the amateur cagers will train full time as part of the training pool, just like what Gilas-1 did in it's 3 year program.

The question is, would Gilas-2 undergo the same extensive training program as the Gilas-1? Would Gilas-2 be given as much exposure in international tournaments as Gilas-1? One must take note that in the 3 year Smart Gilas-1 program, the team traveled around the globe, from Taiwan, to Australia, to Lebanon, to Serbia, to US, and had played countless international games & tune-up games, making it the most traveled National team ever since the Northern Consolidated-RP team of the 80's.

analyzed
11-27-2011, 03:48 AM
I don't think Gilas II will get as much exposure as Gilas I. For one thing the period is shorter , 3 years as compared to practically 1 year. Remember Gilas II will only practicaly have a necleus of players (at least 12) at the earliest April 2012. (Doulthit is still under contract up to March with the CBA)

The other thing that I see differently is unlike Gilas one who had players that were fully available, while the Gilas II will be made up of a mixture of PBA players and Collegiate players who have not yet graduated. The PBA players won't be avaialble from Oct to July. While the collegiate players wont be from June to Oct.

I see the 18 man pool of Gilas II coming from 3 distinct groups.

A. 6 players who are fully avaialble (Doulthit, Tiu, Fil foreingers like Pringle)
B. 6 players from the PBA only avaialbe from July to Sept (for 2012 and 2013)
c 6 players from the UAAP and NCAA

The final line-up for FIBA 2013. would be composed of more or less
A. 6 players from the fully available group
B 4 to 5 players from the PBA (mostly Gilas alumni and TNT players)
C. 1 to 2 players from the UAAP

yogaflame
11-27-2011, 03:56 AM
I don't think Gilas II will get as much exposure as Gilas I. For one thing the period is shorter , 3 years as compared to practically 1 year. Remember Gilas II will only practicaly have a necleus of players (at least 12) at the earliest April 2012. (Doulthit is still under contract up to March with the CBA)

The other thing that I see differently is unlike Gilas one who had players that were fully available, while the Gilas II will be made up of a mixture of PBA players and Collegiate players who have not yet graduated. The PBA players won't be avaialble from Oct to July. While the collegiate players wont be from June to Oct.

I see the 18 man pool of Gilas II coming from 3 distinct groups.

A. 6 players who are fully avaialble (Doulthit, Tiu, Fil foreingers like Pringle)
B. 6 players from the PBA only avaialbe from July to Sept (for 2012 and 2013)
c 6 players from the UAAP and NCAA

The final line-up for FIBA 2013. would be composed of more or less
A. 6 players from the fully available group
B 4 to 5 players from the PBA (mostly Gilas alumni and TNT players)
C. 1 to 2 players from the UAAP

I think you are right, two UAAP players( Parks and ravena) but how about Fajardo and Greg which our team really needs? So they are considered as PBa players because they might be drafted next year?

analyzed
11-27-2011, 03:57 AM
So this begs the question , who will be the 6 players from each group to form the 18 man pool?

This is my guess
Pool A. Fully available players under contract:
1. Doulthit
2. Tiu
3. Ramos
4. Slaugters
5. Pringle
6 Lutz (yes you got it, I'm thinking he will take a year leave of absence from the PBA)

Pool B (PBA Players)
Gilas allumni
1. Aguilar
2. Casio
3 Lassiter
TNT
1 .Castro
2. Williams
3 Dillinger

Pool C (college players)
SInag players
1. Garcia
2 Ravena
3 Parks
4. Ellis
5. Hodge
6. ??

One thing to note aside from the fully dedicated players (pool A). the rest of the groups have to have prior expereince with the national team to ensure less time to get cohesion, given they won't have time on their side

analyzed
11-27-2011, 07:54 AM
The more I see Stanley Pringle playing and doing it at a high level (euro league)
watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q1FdciK5S8

The more I am convinced that our chances in 2013 are dependent on the one, two punch /inside combinaton of Doulthit and Pringle. With the wing & forward reinforcemnt (support roles) coming from the PBA. (Japeth,Williams, Dillinger, Lutz and Marcio).

These guys specifically Marcus and Stanley (main men) have proven it at the high level (euroleague). While the wings and forwards have adequate talent to play support roles.

yogaflame
11-27-2011, 10:14 AM
The more I see Stanley Pringle playing and doing it at a high level (euro league)
watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q1FdciK5S8

The more I am convinced that our chances in 2013 are dependent on the one, two punch /inside combinaton of Doulthit and Pringle. With the wing & forward reinforcemnt (support roles) coming from the PBA. (Japeth,Williams, Dillinger, Lutz and Marcio).

These guys specifically Marcus and Stanley (main men) have proven it at the high level (euroleague). While the wings and forwards have adequate talent to play support roles.

We have a very small chance to get him, he is not even proud to be Pinoy, he does not say much about his Filipino heritage. He is not a big lost we have more talents

FilWelsh
11-27-2011, 05:49 PM
We have a very small chance to get him, he is not even proud to be Pinoy, he does not say much about his Filipino heritage. He is not a big lost we have more talents

How did you know that he is not proud to be a Pinoy? Did you spoken to him?
I have chatted with his mom Elvira Chua-Pringle last week and from her I've gathered that Stanley is a dual citizen of both USA and PI and currently holds a Philippine passport. Elvira even mentioned that Stanley will visit Philippines in summer next year once his contract in Ukraine finishes. With the gesture of taking citizenship of his mom's country , how can be you sure if he is not really proud of his Filipino heritage? For me I won't judge him outright as we don't know his reasons why he keep on playing in Euroleagues. It could be better money in Europe? or perhaps SBP did not extend enough effort in convincing him to play for PI?

Torjack
11-28-2011, 02:08 AM
We don't know what's on the mind of stanley pringle, you can't judge him on why he pursue euro ball, than play in PH. there's a lot of factors to be consider.

in Filipino, ang taong tahimik at di kumikibo ay matinik... lol

JAMSKIE
11-28-2011, 04:13 AM
So this begs the question , who will be the 6 players from each group to form the 18 man pool?

This is my guess
Pool A. Fully available players under contract:
1. Doulthit
2. Tiu
3. Ramos
4. Slaugters
5. Pringle
6 Lutz (yes you got it, I'm thinking he will take a year leave of absence from the PBA)

Pool B (PBA Players)
Gilas allumni
1. Aguilar
2. Casio
3 Lassiter
TNT
1 .Castro
2. Williams
3 Dillinger

Pool C (college players)
SInag players
1. Garcia
2 Ravena
3 Parks
4. Ellis
5. Hodge
6. ??

One thing to note aside from the fully dedicated players (pool A). the rest of the groups have to have prior expereince with the national team to ensure less time to get cohesion, given they won't have time on their side

U mentioned Stanley Pringle, what's d possibility that he will play w/ Gilas-2? Are there some negotiations on going between Pringle & SBP?

Well, I do hope that Pringle will play for Gilas-2, judging from his very impressive credentials, he might turn-out to be the best Fil-foreigner to ever play for a Philippine nat'l. team.

If I'm not mistaken, Pringle stands at least 6-feet & plays combo guard. With his skills & athleticism, he could be Gilas-2's best guard, better than all the guards in the PBA & in the amateur backyard.

Alex07
11-28-2011, 04:28 AM
I suggest that we get Pringle and Tulsa's Clarkson as early as 2013.

JAMSKIE
11-28-2011, 04:33 AM
So this begs the question , who will be the 6 players from each group to form the 18 man pool?

This is my guess
Pool A. Fully available players under contract:
1. Doulthit
2. Tiu
3. Ramos
4. Slaugters
5. Pringle
6 Lutz (yes you got it, I'm thinking he will take a year leave of absence from the PBA)

Pool B (PBA Players)
Gilas allumni
1. Aguilar
2. Casio
3 Lassiter
TNT
1 .Castro
2. Williams
3 Dillinger

Pool C (college players)
SInag players
1. Garcia
2 Ravena
3 Parks
4. Ellis
5. Hodge
6. ??

One thing to note aside from the fully dedicated players (pool A). the rest of the groups have to have prior expereince with the national team to ensure less time to get cohesion, given they won't have time on their side

Agree w/ U. I suggest that during a PBA conference break, the SPB must hold invitational pocket tournaments w/c will run for 4 to 6 days. Since the nat'l. training pool will be comprised of at least 20 cagers (a mix of PBA & amateurs), we can divide the training pool into 2 teams and invite 3 foreign teams for a pocket tournament. In this way, we can slowly develop team cohesion, chemistry & players' familiarity w/ d international game. This would also serve as a try out for the players comprising the pool.

analyzed
11-28-2011, 08:02 AM
Actually playing in Europe instead of the Philippines has very little to do with lack of Philippine patronage , rather more than anything it really is a reflection of the how talented Pringle is. I can bet my house that if the other fil-foreigners had the same talent and were offered the same opporutunity they would be playing in europe and not in the Philippines.

Why is Pringle playing in europe and not the Philippines, the answer is simple: Money , and I don't blame him, any other player would to the same. That dosen't mean he won't play for the Philippines , what it does mean however is he dosen't want to be tied down and have a full time long term contract in the Philippines which will prohibit him from playing in europe. Smart move if you ask me. The solution ? pay him an import like short term contract. A contract reflective of the talent that he is. (BTW no filipino guard currently has that level of talent, if they did then international scouts would have identified them already, scouts are not stupid). I don't think Doulthit would accept local level salaries as well, likewise anyone else who is of that level of talent , with alternative offers from other leagues. Let's not be hyprocrites here, I'm sure everyone in this forum if they had that same talent would do the same. you would be stupid not to, and this has nothing to do with filipino pride. If you're going to judge Pringle , then judge every filipino player who opted to play in the PBA over staying as an amateur to represent the country. I guess only Chris Tiu does not fit in that category. and we all know how secure he is already financially

yogaflame
11-28-2011, 09:51 AM
How did you know that he is not proud to be a Pinoy? Did you spoken to him?
I have chatted with his mom Elvira Chua-Pringle last week and from her I've gathered that Stanley is a dual citizen of both USA and PI and currently holds a Philippine passport. Elvira even mentioned that Stanley will visit Philippines in summer next year once his contract in Ukraine finishes. With the gesture of taking citizenship of his mom's country , how can be you sure if he is not really proud of his Filipino heritage? For me I won't judge him outright as we don't know his reasons why he keep on playing in Euroleagues. It could be better money in Europe? or perhaps SBP did not extend enough effort in convincing him to play for PI?

He plays like Stephan Marbury. It is just that we have not heard much about him talking about his Filipino heritage and interest to play for Team Pilipinas. Well he is a great player, he reminds me of "Stephan Marbury" when he was still young and playing well. Along Christian Standhardinger, and Holt, be will be a great addition to the team Pilipinas pool "if' he shows interest which we have not heard yet from him.

digitalsuperman
11-28-2011, 10:12 AM
He plays like Stephan Marbury. It is just that we have not heard much about him talking about his Filipino heritage and interest to play for Team Pilipinas. Well he is a great player, he reminds me of "Stephan Marbury" when he was still young and playing well. Along Christian Standhardinger, and Holt, be will be a great addition to the team Pilipinas pool "if' he shows interest which we have not heard yet from him.

you have a great criteria for judging :D

kerouac82
11-28-2011, 11:02 AM
you have a great criteria for judging :D

What can I say, the dude knows more about Pringle than his own mom does. :D

lovejones
11-28-2011, 11:10 AM
He plays like Stephan Marbury. It is just that we have not heard much about him talking about his Filipino heritage and interest to play for Team Pilipinas. Well he is a great player, he reminds me of "Stephan Marbury" when he was still young and playing well. Along Christian Standhardinger, and Holt, be will be a great addition to the team Pilipinas pool "if' he shows interest which we have not heard yet from him.

Pringle actually knows how to speak tagalog and he's actually proud of it. In a recent interview, he said "Ang galing-galing ni Eman Monfort."

toikins
11-28-2011, 11:41 AM
Pringle actually knows how to speak tagalog and he's actually proud of it. In a recent interview, he said "Ang galing-galing ni Eman Monfort."

:D

@yoga dude,
plays like Marbury? where did you watch him? pls share the links. thank you

kerouac82
11-28-2011, 12:22 PM
Pringle actually knows how to speak tagalog and he's actually proud of it. In a recent interview, he said "Ang galing-galing ni Eman Monfort."

I also heard Pringle knows a few other Filipino languages, including but not limited to T'boli, Itawis, Kiniray-a, and Tasaday.

webuyube
11-28-2011, 12:34 PM
My swat team

C- McGee
PF- Kwill
SF- Aguilar
SG- Arwind
PG- norwood

yogaflame
11-28-2011, 01:34 PM
:D

@yoga dude,
plays like Marbury? where did you watch him? pls share the links. thank you

Watch the video shared by Analyzed. For me I notice that he plays like Stephan Marbury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q1FdciK5S8( when Stephan Marbury was still in his prime , during his time in Minnesota Timberwolves)

His moves, stance, shooting style, etc. is a bit like Marbury Minnesota years, notice it sir? By the way what is his stats in Euro league?

Johnny A
11-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Watch the video shared by Analyzed. For me I notice that he plays like Stephan Marbury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q1FdciK5S8( when Stephan Marbury was still in his prime , during his time in Minnesota Timberwolves)

His moves, stance, shooting style, etc. is a bit like Marbury Minnesota years, notice it sir? By the way what is his stats in Euro league?
Wow looks like Iverson to me.

lovejones
11-28-2011, 04:44 PM
http://sports.inquirer.net/files/2011/09/toroman.jpg
Toroman waiting for a call
By Joaquin Henson
The Philippine Star Updated November 29, 2011 12:00 AM
http://www.philstar.com/thedeanscorner/articlescontent.aspx?articleid=753124&publicationsubcategoryid=69

MANILA, Philippines - Coach Rajko Toroman is still in Serbia waiting for a call to return to Manila, tentatively in January, and discuss options for a continuing involvement with Philippine basketball. He was supposed to come back for a meeting with SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan last Nov. 15 but received a letter a few days earlier from Smart Gilas operations director Butch Antonio advising the postponement.

Toroman, 56, climaxed his three-year Gilas assignment by steering the Philippines to fourth place at the FIBA-Asia Championships in Wuhan last September, the country’s highest finish since 1987. The Philippines fell two points shy of clinching the bronze medal and a ticket to the London Olympic wildcard qualifying tournament, losing 70-68 to South Korea in the playoff for third.

Toroman told The Star in an e-mail the other day that he is open to renewing an engagement in the Philippines. “According to Butch, management still has no decisions and Smart Gilas 2 won’t start until January so everything is rescheduled to January,” he said. “All I know about Smart Gilas is from the news that I read on the internet because I’m following how my players are doing. I always do that with every player I’ve coached, follow their careers. On my last night in Manila, the players organized a nice dinner and showed some video memories of our three years together. I told them at the end of the evening, do your best in the PBA, don’t embarrass me. I really do care how their careers will develop. In a way, that’s my ID as well.”

Asked if he would consider coaching in the PBA, the Serbian said why not. “I would accept a job with a PBA team,” he replied. “It would be a challenge. With the UAAP, I’m not sure since in all of my career, I’ve spent in pro basketball.”

Because of his A-grade credentials, Toroman has drawn interest from several teams but is holding off making any commitment. “I’ve received offers from European and Asian teams,” he said. “The most serious talks I’ve had were with a European team that plays in the ULEB (Union of European Basketball Leagues) Cup. Asian teams are also an option but I can’t talk of names before things are finished for many reasons. Of course, I would agree to a long-term contract to coach in the Philippines. The best thing for a team and a coach is when there’s time for development. I will always cherish my three nice years in Manila.”

Toroman said staying with Smart Gilas would depend on a lot of factors assuming he is invited to renew. “I haven’t received any offer concerning my possible engagement with Smart Gilas,” he said. “If I receive an offer, my decision would depend on who’s involved in the program. It’s not only about the money. I care about honesty and dedication. Besides, quantity doesn’t mean quality. In Serbia, we have an expression, ‘A lot of nannies (but) a bad child.’”

Regarding the recent Philippine victory with coach Norman Black in the Southeast Asian Games, Toroman said it was a job well done. “Greg (Slaughter) was practicing with us for a long time,” he noted. “I was also asking for Bobby Ray (Parks) and Kiefer (Ravena) to join our practices. Kiefer actually had several practices with Smart Gilas. Two or three players from the SEA Games team with some players from Smart Gilas 1 and the PBA could be the new national team for 2013.”

Toroman said he regularly checks on how Marcus Douthit and the Gilas rookies in the PBA are performing. “Marcus plays in China with Foshan,” he continued. “In his first game, he had 14 points and 10 rebounds. I don’t see too many PBA games but I follow the stats. I think the guys are doing well and I’m proud. I think it will be even better when they spend more time with their teams. The same goes for Japeth (Aguilar).”

On the Philippine women’s basketball team losing to Thailand in overtime in the SEA Games finals, Toroman said it was obvious a mistake was made when the referees counted a two-point shot for three to force an extension. If the shot was ruled a two-pointer instead, the Philippines would’ve bagged the gold in regulation. “Unfortunately, FIBA doesn’t have a rule to review the last two minutes in a situation like this,” he said.

At the moment, Toroman said he is enjoying his vacation in Serbia with wife Tanya and four-year-old grandson Djorje, the son of their daughter Sandra and the Dallas Mavericks 2002 second round draft pick Mlade Sekularac. “I’m enjoying with Djorje most of the time,” he said. “I needed this vacation. This is the reason why I didn’t accept a job offer that I had right after FIBA-Asia. I had to start immediately. Even though I’m a workaholic, I refused it. I had to take care of my health after the stress I went through, not to mention that I hadn’t visited my home in 1 1/2 years. Since I am passionate about my job as you know, I am using this time to follow the Euro league and Serbian championships.”

---------

Uhm, Boss Danding, Ginebra badly needs help

FilWelsh
11-28-2011, 10:58 PM
Stanley Pringle's Experience

Professional Basketball Player Dnipro Azot
August 2011 – Present (4 months)
Professional Basketball team in the Division I league of Ukraine.


Professional Basketball Player Siarka Tarnobrzeg
August 2010 – April 2011 (9 months) Tarnobrzeg, Poland
Professional Basketball team in the Division I league of Ukraine

Professional Basketball player Passe-Partout Leuven Bears
August 2009 – June 2010 (11 months)
Point Guard position for the Leuven Bears in div. 1 basketball of Belgium.

Collegiate player for Penn State Nittany Lions
June 2007 – May 2009 (2 years) University Park, PA
Point guard/ Shooting guard for US NCAA Division I School


Honors and Awards:

2 time Division I Basketball Letterman at Penn State University
2009 NCAA National Invitational Tournament Champion
2009 All-Big Ten Conference Honorable Mention,
2007 NJCAA All-American Honorable Mention
2005 Group AAA VHSL 1st Team All-State

nardy
11-28-2011, 11:56 PM
Sweep success: 5 things we learned from the Sinag Pilipinas SEAG campaign (http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/sweep-success-5-things-we-learned-from-the-sinag-pilipinas-seag-campaign)

Adrian M. Dy, special to InterAKTV · Friday, November 25, 2011 · 9:06 pm

http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/assets/2011/11/sinag-pilipinas-gold-medal.jpg


Mission accomplished.


Heading into the 2011 Southeast Asian Games, the Sinag Pilipinas national team was a highly touted group of young lads whom everyone figured would demolish the competition without breaking a sweat. In fact, that’s exactly what happened as coach Norman Black’s student-athlete heavy team brushed aside the older dribblers that stood across them on the court.


The gold medal achievement is a great thing, but the country is still on the lookout for a bigger prize: a return to the Olympics. Is this a building point for the future or merely just a flash in the pan? Here are our five things we can pick up from the successful Sinag campaign:
1. The Philippines continues to dominate the region in basketball

The point might seem obvious, but it bears mentioning, lest we take for granted just how good the Philippine team has been in the region.
Sinag’s win gives the Philippines 15 first-place finishes in the SEA Games.



In fact, stretching back to 1977, the only times we haven’t won gold was when we finished second in 1989, when we were suspended in 2005, and when basketball was not offered as a sport in 2009.


The actual on-court performance of Sinag Pilipinas was just as dominant.



The Philippines won by an average of 40.8 points, and failed to break the century margin just once, in the finals. Overall, the team shot 60.63 percent from the field while clamping down and allowing just 36.25 percent shooting from their opponents. No matter how you slice those figures, Sinag looked like a man amongst boys, despite the ages of the rosters showing the exact opposite.


With that said, it bears repeating that the country’s success in the region is not something we should take for granted. Lord knows a long time ago, the Philippines was Asia’s basketball superpower, having taken to the sport long before our neighbors. That advantage has been erased, and it’s not unimaginable that one day, Thailand or Vietnam could inflict a stinging loss on our national team.
2. Black magic did its trick

Having coached the Ateneo Blue Eagles to four straight UAAP titles, Sinag head coach Norman Black is known for his defense-first orientation, and a love of the fastbreak. Both of those things were exactly what we saw, as his charges played in your face defense throughout the games.


Aided by timely steals and a predilection for outlet passes as soon as the rebound was secured, Sinag Pilipinas, a few hitches notwithstanding, did exactly what their coach wanted, going from defense to offense in a blink of an eye. And the team was not one-dimensional either; the players could also score easily in the half-court (though having the tallest player in the entire tournament certainly helped), and Black’s crack coaching staff made the necessary halftime adjustments that we’ve become accustomed to seeing in the UAAP.


Prior to the games, Black was quoted as saying that the tight schedule had prevented him from tailoring a system for his players, and that the selected representatives would instead have to adjust to his system. When you think about it, that’s a huge sacrifice on Black’s part, as it meant opening up the Ateneo playbook to non-Blue Eagle players — though they would presumably have changed play calling signals and made modifications. In the end though, the gold medals meant that such a sacrifice was worth it.
3. Basketball IQ, not star power, rules

As is custom when assembling national teams, there was outcry from casual observers, particularly about the fact that Black’s roster had too many Ateneo players. There was considerable protest when players like Emman Monfort and Justin Chua made the cut, with accusations of bias being thrown around.


Black’s response to the matter was that his team needed basketball IQ and not star power, and that that was the main criteria he had in mind when he chose his team. As mentioned above, because they would be running his system, it stood to reason that he needed players who already understood said system, or players who could quickly grasp it in time for the games.



Even then you could see that the translation was not always perfect, with guys missing defensive rotations, instances of over-sharing in transition and passes to nobody.


Could the team staff have assembled a squad with much more firepower? Certainly, but Black and company needed guys who were willing to make the extra pass, play defense, and absorb his schemes in a short amount of time, which is exactly what his 12 players and three alternates gave him.
4. There still needs to be better scheduling and preparation

Basketball is a year-round sport in the Philippines. If there’s no PBA, there’s PBA D-League. And if there’s no PBA D-League, there’s collegiate hoops, which itself has preseason and postseason tournaments. And while that’s a good thing for us lovers of the game, that’s a coordination nightmare for when you’re trying to get together 12 guys from different schools or squads to practice together.


Compare our country’s situation with that of the United States. March Madness signals the end of collegiate basketball there, while the NBA season ends in June. Both the NCAA and the NBA then start up again in late October/early November, meaning there’s a gap in the middle, around the summer months, that allows national teams to be formed and practice without any interruptions.


With a similar set-up, the Sinag team could have looked much different, incorporating a mix of amateurs and PBA players. You could also, in theory, have one of those power-packed line-ups as they would have spent at the very least, a solid month’s worth of practice together, unbothered by practices with other teams.


Instead, what you got were collegiate student-athletes barely a month removed from their mother leagues, some with PBA D-League commitments, and some with practices with their college teams for the Philippine Collegiate Champions League. The Philippines won this tournament handily, but in the future, we can’t always just throw a bunch of guys together, no matter how basketball smart they are, cross our fingers, and hope they all gel together.
5. Here’s a foundation for future national teams

Stop me if you’ve heard this before, but Ray Parks, Kiefer Ravena, and Greg Slaughter will likely form the core of our future national teams. All three acquitted themselves well in the tournament, with Parks and Ravena in particular, looking dynamite as they looked for each other in transition.


But another person that definitely stood out was the coach, Norman Black.



And with the decision as to whether or not to rehire Smart Gilas head coach Rajko Toroman delayed until January, according to reports, somebody out there in the SBP has to be looking at what Black did, under limited circumstances, and think, “Well, if the Toroman thing doesn’t work out, maybe we can use this guy…”

Adrian Dy writes about college basketball in his blog Chinoy Hoops Fan (http://chinoyhoopsfan.blogspot.com/). Follow him on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#%21/chinoyhoopsfan) for more hoops discussion.

FilWelsh
11-29-2011, 12:05 AM
Stanley Pringle's Stats

June 2007 – May 2009

he played his junior and senior collegiate years years for Penn State Nittany Lions (prior to that he spent 2 years in Pasco Hernando Community College in Florida). In two years with Penn State he appeared in 68 games and logged an averages of 26.7 minutes, 10.1 points, 42.2% FG, 43.5% 3pt. FG, 72% FT, 2.8 rebounds, 2.6 assists and 1.1 steal. One of the important piece of Penn State's triumph of NCAA Division National Invitational Tournament in 2009.


August 2009 – June 2010

He appeared in 23 out of 32 season games for Leuven Bears in Belgium First Division, Ethias League. During his stint there he logged an averages of 25.2 minutes, 10.3 points, 49.1% FG, 32.6% 3pt. FG, 64.9% FT, 2.0 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 1.3 steal in a starting point guard role. His team finished at the tail-end 9th place on a 9 wins - 23 losses record despite parading 7 imports.


August 2010 – April 2011

He was one of the 5 imports who played for Siarka in PLK (Polska Liga Koszykówki), the highest level league of basketball in Poland. He appeared in 20 out of 22 season games and posted an averages of 31.0 minutes, 12.3 points, 47.6% FG, 32.9% 3pt. FG, 67.9% FT, 3.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists and 2.4 steals. His team yielded a 4 wins - 18 losses tally, a dismal last in the league.


August 2011 – Present

He is one of 6 imports who currently plays for Dnipro Azot in Ukrainian Basketball Superleague, the top professional basketball league in Ukraine. He appears in all 13 games the team played this ongoing season which he averages 27.8 minutes, 12.3 points, 2.6 rebounds, 2.9 assists and 1.1 steal. Displays shooting percentages of 48.1% FG, 43.5% 3pt. FG and 81.3% FT. Again the same in Belgian and Polish teams, they are in the bottom of the league with just 2 wins in 13 games.

FilWelsh
11-29-2011, 12:17 AM
Looking and analyzing Pringle's stats, I would say his figures are still decent but the way his teams' placed in their respective leagues is unimpressive. While he is successful in his college years he failed to translate his talents when he became professional. All of his three Euroleague teams finishes last in their respective leagues.

But again despite of his latest shortcomings, I still believe that he would be an upgrade in point guard position for future Gilas team. Much better than Barocca in skills and size. . .

rocketstar47
11-29-2011, 06:04 AM
the best thing MVP should do is to retain coach
rajko toroman because this coach knows our
strength and weaknessand if ever the PBA and SBP will
cooperate each other i think 2013 is ours....

durden_tyler
11-29-2011, 06:09 AM
the best thing MVP should do is to retain coach
rajko toroman because this coach knows our
strength and weaknessand if ever the PBA and SBP will
cooperate each other i think 2013 is ours....

Have you been living under a rock? ;)

Don't make it hard for yourself. Wake up and smell the coffee, you'd struggle less with the ultimate truth that Toroman won't be on top of the next Gilas project.

Bonifacio
11-29-2011, 07:05 AM
Sweep success: 5 things we learned from the Sinag Pilipinas SEAG campaign (http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/sweep-success-5-things-we-learned-from-the-sinag-pilipinas-seag-campaign)

Adrian M. Dy, special to InterAKTV · Friday, November 25, 2011 · 9:06 pm

http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/assets/2011/11/sinag-pilipinas-gold-medal.jpg


[/I][/SIZE]

What is the height of Eman Monfort? ...he really looks short as compared to Chris Tiu, whom I believe is only about 5'10. He looks like he is 5'3 or 5'4.

analyzed
11-29-2011, 07:40 AM
Toroman: “Greg (Slaughter) was practicing with us for a long time,” he noted. “I was also asking for Bobby Ray (Parks) and Kiefer (Ravena) to join our practices. Kiefer actually had several practices with Smart Gilas. Two or three players from the SEA Games team with some players from Smart Gilas 1 and the PBA could be the new national team for 2013.”

Toroman is not the only one who mentioned the three sinag players as shoe-ins to Gilas II. When you add Doulthit and Tiu , the other shoe-ins. Then the 4 PBA Gilas allumni. Lutz,Casio, lassiter & Aguilar, that's 9 players already. add three TNT players standouts who have the advantage over other pros . Williams, Castro and Dillinger and you have a 12 man line-up. I really don't see the next FIBA asia team being very different from the 12 man line-up mentioned. if ever you are looking at at most 3 player being changed from the players mentioned,

This should provides continuity of players familiar to int'l ball as well as proivide players who are available to practice (Tnt players have this advantage, as joint gilas and tnt practices are realistic)

Silent Killer
11-29-2011, 07:53 AM
What is the height of Eman Monfort? ...he really looks short as compared to Chris Tiu, whom I believe is only about 5'10. He looks like he is 5'3 or 5'4.

eman monfort i think is 5'6.

durden_tyler
11-29-2011, 07:59 AM
Toroman: “Greg (Slaughter) was practicing with us for a long time,” he noted. “I was also asking for Bobby Ray (Parks) and Kiefer (Ravena) to join our practices. Kiefer actually had several practices with Smart Gilas. Two or three players from the SEA Games team with some players from Smart Gilas 1 and the PBA could be the new national team for 2013.”

Toroman is not the only one who mentioned the three sinag players as shoe-ins to Gilas II. When you add Doulthit and Tiu , the other shoe-ins. Then the 4 PBA Gilas allumni. Lutz,Casio, lassiter & Aguilar, that's 9 players already. add three TNT players standouts who have the advantage over other pros . Williams, Castro and Dillinger and you have a 12 man line-up. I really don't see the next FIBA asia team being very different from the 12 man line-up mentioned. if ever you are looking at at most 3 player being changed from the players mentioned,

This should provides continuity of players familiar to int'l ball as well as proivide players who are available to practice (Tnt players have this advantage, as joint gilas and tnt practices are realistic)

Put yourself in Chot's shoes for a moment. Would you choose Ravena and Parks to say, Yap and Santos?

Exactly.

digitalsuperman
11-29-2011, 08:38 AM
http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/assets/2011/11/sinag-pilipinas-gold-medal.jpg


monfort is raising his pinkee not the index finger. :D much like dr. evil. "fire the laser":D

analyzed
11-29-2011, 10:08 AM
Put yourself in Chot's shoes for a moment. Would you choose Ravena and Parks to say, Yap and Santos?

Exactly.

Objectively and honestly yes, especially if Ravena and Parks have been practicing for months with my team for the last 2 years, and have had their growth spurt (in basketball skill terms, note the biggest growth in a players level of play is from that 18 to 20 year old period).
While the alternative is to pick 2 players (yap and Santos) who only have less than a month to prepare to learn the system and are probably fatigued carrying their mother teams for 10 consecutive months playing, plus have had no familiarity playing international ball for at least the last 3 years. but have been playing the opposite style one on one oriented pro game..

And last but not the least for my 11th and 12 th spot, i want guys who have been part of the team and have raport with their teamates on the court and off. (locker room / bench) rather than to integrate 2 stars to play minor roles (due to their lack of familarilty and chemsitry) which will be difficult for them to accept

So actually in all honesty if I was Chot Reyes, it's a no brainer. Absolutely yes, in fact it would be foolish to select Yap and Santos under the situation. Imagine the message you would be sending to the rest of your team. if you inserted Yap and Santos in the last minute to take over the role of your main guys like Lassiter , Lutz ,Dillinger and Williams. That would just cause havoc in chemistry as well as motivation. Black saw the value of choosing lesser talents who knew his system like Monfort and Chua, how much more with Chot not choose guys who know his system as well and who actually have talent.

This is simply a no brainer

Bonifacio
11-29-2011, 10:29 AM
Objectively and honestly yes, especially if Ravena and Parks have been practicing for months with my team for the last 2 years, and have had their growth spurt (in basketball skill terms, note the biggest growth in a players level of play is from that 18 to 20 year old period).
While the alternative is to pick 2 players (yap and Santos) who only have less than a month to prepare to learn the system and are probably fatigued carrying their mother teams for 10 consecutive months playing, plus have had no familiarity playing international ball for at least the last 3 years. but have been playing the opposite style one on one oriented pro game..

And last but not the least for my 11th and 12 th spot, i want guys who have been part of the team and have raport with their teamates on the court and off. (locker room / bench) rather than to integrate 2 stars to play minor roles (due to their lack of familarilty and chemsitry) which will be difficult for them to accept

So actually in all honesty if I was Chot Reyes, it's a no brainer. Absolutely yes, in fact it would be foolish to select Yap and Santos under the situation. Imagine the message you would be sending to the rest of your team. if you inserted Yap and Santos in the last minute to take over the role of your main guys like Lassiter , Lutz ,Dillinger and Williams. That would just cause havoc in chemistry as well as motivation. Black saw the value of choosing lesser talents who knew his system like Monfort and Chua, how much more with Chot not choose guys who know his system as well and who actually have talent.

This is simply a no brainer

I agree with you. Looking back, this is similar to what happened in Wuhan. However, in that case, Toroman did the opposite. He got Alapag, De Ocampo and Williams to replace the other Gilas guys who have been with the team for a long time.

analyzed
11-29-2011, 10:36 AM
To be fair I think DT's premise in selecting Yap and Santos instead of Parks & Revena is on the assumption that eveything else is equal. (Both tandems have the same time to prepare etc). Then it becomes a case of purely basing it on talent and their game. Of which obviously the PBA tandem is light years ahead at the moment over the youth standouts. But unfortunately that is simply not the case and reality of the situation. The PBA players who are either non MVP teams or not former Gilas alumni unfortunately come with very difficult conditions that make it almost impossible to select them. To select them or majority of them will go against all the fundamental thinking that the Gilas program is all about (continuity, familarity, team chemistry, preparation etc)

analyzed
11-29-2011, 10:45 AM
I agree with you. Looking back, this is similar to what happened in Wuhan. However, in that case, Toroman did the opposite. He got Alapag, De Ocampo and Williams to replace the other Gilas guys who have been with the team for a long time.

To be accurate however Alapag, Williams , DeOcampo all are from TNT of which they had the benefit of practicing togother with Gilas numerous times. Which wont be be case for Yap and Arwin.

I more accurate comparison is to get Castro, Dillinger and Willimas to replace some of the Gilas II regular members (probably Sinag members like Hodge, Ellis etc). Not the main Gilas II guys like Ravena and parks who would be more accuratly compared to say Gilas I members Borroca and Baracel (who were not replaced)

yogaflame
11-29-2011, 10:48 AM
Looking and analyzing Pringle's stats, I would say his figures are still decent but the way his teams' placed in their respective leagues is unimpressive. While he is successful in his college years he failed to translate his talents when he became professional. All of his three Euroleague teams finishes last in their respective leagues.

But again despite of his latest shortcomings, I still believe that he would be an upgrade in point guard position for future Gilas team. Much better than Barocca in skills and size. . .

Well he looks flashy but I feel Holt is better, and he is taller point guard Anyway I for me what our National team needs is a tall point guard, not actually Shooting guard. For shooting guard we can go small since shooting guards are scorers , they can use there quickness athleticism, moving without the ball and cutting the lane. Smaller shooting guards can be an advantage, they are harder to guard when moving without the ball since they quicker and can easily slash. For point guard, a taller point guard has better vision.

I still hope Toroman will be coach but please not Black, no offense, he will be bias to pick Ateneo players, even the puny Monfort who will not last 20 seconds in Fiba Asia. Call me a broken radio,but Monfort is not like the legend Johny A, Alapag, or Calma who are more talented and consistent even if they are small. He will just hurt the team and hurt himself. I also don't like drama queen Chot. If its not Toroman,then lets get a new foreign coach. Pirate the coach of Jordan or Japan or any foreign coach.

Ravena and Parks are shooins , they will play great together at guard at the same time. The problem with Ravena and Parks are there greedy schools and leagues who will find ways that they will not be included just like what happened to Greg where he was cut from Smart Gilas because Ateneo wants him. By the way it will be a big mistake if we will not include Kraken Fajardo. Love him or hate him we need a tall powerforward like Fajardo. PBA powerforwards and centers are not enough, we need greg and fajardo. Negotiate with SMC. I hope SMC and Smart will unite. This 4 amateurs MUST BE INCLUDED:

1.Fajardo PF/C
2. Slaughther C
3. Ravena SG/PG
4. Parks SG/PG

DS_42
11-29-2011, 11:39 AM
Well he looks flashy but I feel Holt is better, and he is taller point guard Anyway I for me what our National team needs is a tall point guard, not actually Shooting guard. For shooting guard we can go small since shooting guards are scorers , they can use there quickness athleticism, moving without the ball and cutting the lane. Smaller shooting guards can be an advantage, they are harder to guard when moving without the ball since they quicker and can easily slash. For point guard, a taller point guard has better vision.

I still hope Toroman will be coach but please not Black, no offense, he will be bias to pick Ateneo players, even the puny Monfort who will not last 20 seconds in Fiba Asia. Call me a broken radio,but Monfort is not like the legend Johny A, Alapag, or Calma who ar
e more talented and consistent even if they are small. He will just hurt the team and hurt himself. I also don't like drama queen Chot. If its not Toroman,then lets get a new foreign coach. Pirate the coach of Jordan or Japan or any foreign coach.

Ravena and Parks are shooins , they will play great together at guard at the same time. The problem with Ravena and Parks are there greedy schools and leagues who will find ways that they will not be included just like what happened to Greg where he was cut from Smart Gilas because Ateneo wants him. By the way it will be a big mistake if we will not include Kraken Fajardo. Love him or hate him we need a tall powerforward like Fajardo. PBA powerforwards and centers are not enough, we need greg and fajardo. Negotiate with SMC. I hope SMC and Smart will unite. This 4 amateurs MUST BE INCLUDED:

1.Fajardo PF/C
2. Slaughther C
3. Ravena SG/PG
4. Parks SG/PG

Yup, you do sound like a broken record

kerouac82
11-29-2011, 11:50 AM
Yoga,

Emman Monfort just called. He says you can kiss his champion's ass.

lovejones
11-29-2011, 02:33 PM
Well he looks flashy but I feel Holt is better, and he is taller point guard Anyway I for me what our National team needs is a tall point guard, not actually Shooting guard. For shooting guard we can go small since shooting guards are scorers , they can use there quickness athleticism, moving without the ball and cutting the lane. Smaller shooting guards can be an advantage, they are harder to guard when moving without the ball since they quicker and can easily slash. For point guard, a taller point guard has better vision.

I still hope Toroman will be coach but please not Black, no offense, he will be bias to pick Ateneo players, even the puny Monfort who will not last 20 seconds in Fiba Asia. Call me a broken radio,but Monfort is not like the legend Johny A, Alapag, or Calma who are more talented and consistent even if they are small. He will just hurt the team and hurt himself. I also don't like drama queen Chot. If its not Toroman,then lets get a new foreign coach. Pirate the coach of Jordan or Japan or any foreign coach.

Ravena and Parks are shooins , they will play great together at guard at the same time. The problem with Ravena and Parks are there greedy schools and leagues who will find ways that they will not be included just like what happened to Greg where he was cut from Smart Gilas because Ateneo wants him. By the way it will be a big mistake if we will not include Kraken Fajardo. Love him or hate him we need a tall powerforward like Fajardo. PBA powerforwards and centers are not enough, we need greg and fajardo. Negotiate with SMC. I hope SMC and Smart will unite. This 4 amateurs MUST BE INCLUDED:

1.Fajardo PF/C
2. Slaughther C
3. Ravena SG/PG
4. Parks SG/PG

ZUatnbaNfEo

:D

theImbaguy
12-01-2011, 01:18 AM
do u seriously think he will pick monfort over pba players?

capitantiago
12-01-2011, 01:20 AM
do u seriously think he will pick monfort over pba players?

why not? if the gods say so! :D

potz05
12-01-2011, 01:36 AM
Unli ka ba?

Hahaha..

Still singing the same song over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Ooops *nahawa na ata ako* Sorry guys. :p

JAMSKIE
12-01-2011, 02:58 AM
To be fair I think DT's premise in selecting Yap and Santos instead of Parks & Revena is on the assumption that eveything else is equal. (Both tandems have the same time to prepare etc). Then it becomes a case of purely basing it on talent and their game. Of which obviously the PBA tandem is light years ahead at the moment over the youth standouts. But unfortunately that is simply not the case and reality of the situation. The PBA players who are either non MVP teams or not former Gilas alumni unfortunately come with very difficult conditions that make it almost impossible to select them. To select them or majority of them will go against all the fundamental thinking that the Gilas program is all about (continuity, familarity, team chemistry, preparation etc)

Well, that's where the issue of players' availability in the upcoming 2013 FIBA-Asia Men's Championship comes to play. Ravena & Parks would still be playing for their respective schools in the UAAP at that time, and since the FIBA-asia tournament falls during the UAAP season, Parks & Ravena won't be available for the National team, unless of course Ateneo & NU would be generous & patriotic enough to sacrifice their own interest for the country's interest, w/c I doubt very much they will do.

nardy
12-01-2011, 03:51 AM
http://www.malaya.com.ph/dec01/sports9.html
SEAOIL program gets kudos

SAMAHANG Basketball ng Pilipinas executive director Sonny Barrios and PBA coaches lauded the holding of the SEAOIL National Coaches Convention that drew over 200 participants from all over the country recently.

National Training director Alex Compton said coaches Tim Cone and Chot Reyes were impressed by the attendance and
enthusiasm of the participants, most of whom are handling teams in the SEAOIL Elite League already ongoing in many parts of the country.


"The coaches were overwhelmed with the event. They had never experienced anything like this–a free three-day coaches’ convention that featured some of the most well respected coaches in the country," said Compton. "The participants left with some valuable basketball knowledge, and they left inspired."


"Mr. Barrios has been extremely supportive the whole time. He attended and spoke to the coaches, and he is glad that the program is indeed helping develop basketball at the grassroots level nationwide, both for coaches and players," he added.


Cone and Reyes taught half court defensive principles and the transition game while University of the Philippines coach Ricky Dandan (zone defense), National University mentor Eric Altamirano and Compton (fundamental skills development).

geo
12-01-2011, 04:45 AM
Sir Nardy please tell them to hold that kind of convention in every provinces in the country if they want to really change the way our coaches teaches our young players how to play Baketball.

RedMetal
12-01-2011, 06:53 AM
Any news about Sbp and Pba MOA about our national team? I believe with Sonny Barrios being the head now of Sbp and we all know he can talk to all Pba govs. and owners unlike the former Noli Eala, he can find a way to convince them to allow the former Gilas and the Pba superstars to form Gilas 2.0, i dont think Smart Corp. players can do it alone if we really like to win it all next time we need everybody's cooperation, based on Gilas 1.0 line up, Gregory Slaughter and Jhunmar Fajardo should replace De Ocampo and Williams position they are bigger and more of a reliable free throw shooter, Japeth Aguilar should come back, i really don't mind about the small forward to the guards position we have tons of them.:cool:

analyzed
12-01-2011, 07:54 AM
The thing is the chances of Parks and Ravena being available for 5 months training and being released to play 2 weeks of basketball while the UAAP season is ongoing is infinetly higher and more realistic than non MVP PBA players being made available for 3 months. The former (UAAP players) have a shorter season, and the decision lies in the school team alone (not the board like the PBA) plus it is very possible to be released only for the 2 weeks FIBA asia runs. under this scenario they will practice both for Gilas and their college team while the UAAP season is going. this is possible as the UAAP normally has just one game per week, plus they won't play heavy minutes with Gilas anyway. As far as the PBA is concerned however it's a different story , the contraits are just to much for a realistic way of getting PBA players for significant practice time.

However given the situation of having former Gilas alumni plus TNT players , I actually don't see any significant need to get other non-MVP team PBA players. having Arwin with liitle practice or not won't really matter much. Actually what is more critical is if Gilas can sign a talented Fil-foreigner like Pringle. As he and Doulthit will really be carrying the team. The PBA players (non-gilas allumni) will merely be support players.

JAMSKIE
12-01-2011, 09:30 AM
The thing is the chances of Parks and Ravena being available for 5 months training and being released to play 2 weeks of basketball while the UAAP season is ongoing is infinetly higher and more realistic than non MVP PBA players being made available for 3 months. The former (UAAP players) have a shorter season, and the decision lies in the school team alone (not the board like the PBA) plus it is very possible to be released only for the 2 weeks FIBA asia runs. under this scenario they will practice both for Gilas and their college team while the UAAP season is going. this is possible as the UAAP normally has just one game per week, plus they won't play heavy minutes with Gilas anyway. As far as the PBA is concerned however it's a different story , the contraits are just to much for a realistic way of getting PBA players for significant practice time.

However given the situation of having former Gilas alumni plus TNT players , I actually don't see any significant need to get other non-MVP team PBA players. having Arwin with liitle practice or not won't really matter much. Actually what is more critical is if Gilas can sign a talented Fil-foreigner like Pringle. As he and Doulthit will really be carrying the team. The PBA players (non-gilas allumni) will merely be support players.

U got a point. I just hope u will be right w/ that expectation that Ateneo & NU lends Ravena & Parks to the nat'l. team for that 2- week duration of 2013 FIBA-asia.

I just hope that if chot reyes is chosen to handle Gilas-2, he will pick as many as 6 or 7 Talk & Text cagers for the nat'l. pool. In my opinion, K. Williams, Ranidel Deocampo, Jared Delinger, J. Aguilar, Ryan Reyes, Jimmy Alapag & J. Castro are shoo-inns for the nat'l. pool. I consider these cagers as top priority for the pool not becoz they are the best players for their respective positions but becoz of their familiarity w/ Chot Reyes' system & the cohesion factor. Selecting the "best" talents in the PBA would mean having a lot of non-Talk & Text players in the pool, and therefore Chot will be hard-pressed to establish cohesion & chemistry w/ time constraint. I expect Gilas-2 will have no more than 2 months of full-time training prior to the 2013 FIBA-Asia men's Championship, w/c gives us the idea of the difficulty of establishing enough cohesion, chemistry & familiarity w/ the system. At least w/ TnT cagers comprising the majority of the pool, achieving cohesion & chemistry in a limited time frame won't be much of a problem.

My concern, however is that Chot might bear too much public pressure & would decide not to pick a lot of his TnT players out of the fear of being accuse of "favoritism". Remember how Norman Black was criticize by some people for picking too many Ateneo players for the SEA games-bound Sinag-Pilipinas. For me, Norman Black just did the logical thing - pick the players he is most familiar w/, under such circumstance. Black didn't have the luxury of time and forming a team w/ "assortment" of players coming from different schools & amateur teams would need long period of training to establish cohesion & chemistry.

In our past National teams, it's always been "cohesion" and not "composition" that we had trouble addressing.

nardy
12-02-2011, 01:01 AM
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideSports.htm?f=2011/december/2/sports2.isx&d=2011/december/2

Barrios: Too early to select PBA players

by Rey Joble


THE Philippine Basketball Association has already asked the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas to come up with a wish list of players, who will likely beef up the second coming of Smart-Gilas Pilipinas basketball team.


But former PBA Commissioner and now SBP executive Sonny Barrios believes it’s too early to do it.


“We still don’t know who will be the players are at that time. There will be a Rookie Draft coming in 2012 and the 2013 Fiba- Asia Championship is still more than a year from now,” Barrios told Manila Standard. “I believe non-PBA players will be given priority first in forming up the initial pool of Gilas 2 and the coach will then decide from there the PBA players the team will be needing.”


Professional players are likely to reinforce the national squad for the 2013 Fiba-Asia Championship, just like what happened this year when Asi Taulava of Meralco and Talk ‘N Text players Jimmy Alapag, Kelly Williams and Ranidel de Ocampo were loaned to Smart Gilas. Barrios, however, feels the pros won’t be needed in the early stages of formation of the second wave of Gilas players.


According to Barrios, he has already talked to his PBA Commissioner Chito Salud, regarding SBP’s planning session, which was moved to early next year, and both of them agreed that the more important thing to do is to identify the non-PBA players, who will become the first batch of the national pool.


Most of the top amateur players are from the gold-medal winning Pilipinas Sinag team, which dominated the Southeast Asian Games, and Barrios agreed with team manager Butch Antonio that they will be the primary candidates for Gilas 2.


Meanwhile, sister teams Petron Blaze and Barangay Ginebra clash in an explosive main game of the PBA Philippine Cup tonight at the Smart-Araneta Coliseum. The Boosters, who are riding the crest of a six-game winning run, face the Gin Kings at 7:30 p.m. right after the game between Meralco and Powerade at 5:15 p.m.

nardy
12-02-2011, 01:16 AM
Sonny Barrios is a very realistic person and he knows very well how the people at the PBA think.

He is not going to get entrapped in the gimmicks of the PBA and at the end to be greatly dissapointed after expecting too much on the assistance that the PBA is "said" to be offering. He is very much open on the PBA players but it would be wishful thinking that the PBA would release the players this early. We also have to take on consideration that the condition of the player might be different one year from now from what he is today. We might risk picking a player this early then next year he could be off-form, injured or whatever then there is a player who we might not playing that well this season and not picked could be playing magnificently next season and then the PBA may say we can't touch him as he was not in the player list.

So Let's first have the SBP be self-reliant at the moment by setting-up the non-PBA component of the National Pool and from there see what kind of reinforcements is needed.

analyzed
12-02-2011, 05:41 AM
Exactly as predicted. The core of the team still has to come from players who are available to practice long term together. (non-PBA players, at least 6 of them ). The PBA reinforcement (at most 6) are simply there to fill in the gaps based on what is lacking from the core players. Any imagination that this was going to being a mainly PBA player team is simple wishful and foolish thinking. Geez.. so much for a pool of 16 PBA players, what utter nonsense, and gimickery

durden_tyler
12-02-2011, 06:42 AM
Exactly as predicted. The core of the team still has to come from players who are available to practice long term together. (non-PBA players, at least 6 of them ). The PBA reinforcement (at most 6) are simply there to fill in the gaps based on what is lacking from the core players. Any imagination that this was going to being a mainly PBA player team is simple wishful and foolish thinking. Geez.. so much for a pool of 16 PBA players, what utter nonsense, and gimickery

True true. A point for emphasis (again and again) is that the SBP is just powerless for entities like the PBA. Beggars can't be choosers too so i guess SBP will have to settle with a medicore pool first then see where it takes them.

i'd like to play devil's advocate a bit:. Why not name them now so that the PBA (and their teams/governors) know this early which teams are being considered? Then if teams are not interested in loaning them at least Barrios/SBP would know how to move on from this? What i see happening is that SBP will again be too late in "asking for permission" from the PBA teams that we'd have to settle again with a mediocre team :(